How about forgivness

[dalin]

FORGIVE

If you are able to feel hurt, you are also able to heal that hurt.
When someone has angered you, or frustrated you, annoyed you,
offended you or made you feel hurt in some other way, you too have
been an active participant in that hurt. That's not to say that what
they did was right or that it is excusable. It wasn't and it isn't.
Still, your best strategy is to get past it. The hurt you feel is
all yours to the extent that you've chosen to experience it. So make
the choice to stop experiencing it.

Forgiveness is far more beneficial for you than for the person you
are forgiving. So by all means practice it! The longer you delay
your forgiveness, the more you are victimized by the original
transgression.

No matter how ill intentioned are the actions of another toward you,
your forgiveness signals that you are not willing to participate in
your own victimization. It's a powerful strategy. Forgive, and make
your life more positive, productive, joyful and fulfilling.

[dalin]

Steve
inspectorred
Fromnarcoticsanonymouse2

[coalminer]

When someone has angered you, or frustrated you, annoyed you, offended you or made you feel hurt in some other way, you too have been an active participant in that hurt.

hmm, :eek: :195: :idea: :85: :1:

[rockydeedee]

The hurt you feel is
all yours to the extent that you've chosen to experience it. So make
the choice to stop experiencing it.......

The longer you delay your forgiveness, the more you are victimized by the original transgression.




:106: I soooooo, needed to hear this!!!!!
I was brand new in AA. I was at my 3rd meeting. This man did not like what I said (basically that I had not lost my house, car, or family while drinking and hitting my bottom) Evidently he had lost everything. When it was his turn, he yelled at me his story, leaning way over the table and staring me down. He embarrassed me so bad that I cried. The chairperson had to make him stop talking. The chairperson then turned to me and told me in front of everyone not to take what he said personally. But, I could not help but take offense to this man. I stayed strong and did not run out of the meeting like I wanted to. Everyone told me to keep coming back and to consider the source. I did return the next day. But, every time I see that man, I cringe (thank God he is not a regular member in my home group!). When it is his turn to talk, I get up and walk outside to smoke and come back in when he is finished. For some reason I cannot let it go. I have prayed about it, talked to my sponsor and I just keep holding that grudge.

[peajaye]

DeeDee, I'm glad you didn't let it stop you from attending and finding different people. Jealousy is an evil and I've got it big time. God and I work on that, but it makes me want to lash out at those that I perceive have more than me. I have to pray about it all the time.

Good thing you're praying about it, that is how to heal. He will lead you in the right direction. Maybe you could put him in the God Box. The reason I've even brought that up to you is because I need to make one myself.

[Peanut]

Keep hangin in there sweetie,

We do not know what is going on in this persons life. Sounds like he has a lot of unforgiveness in his heart and a lot of pain. Ask God to let you see this person as he does. May work, may not. Don't let anyone run you out of meetings. You are the only one who can give up your sobriety, others are not worth letting them take that away from you.

Keep hangin in there:29:

[Bruce T.]

Dear Dee Dee,

My name is Bruce, and I am a low bottom alcoholic. Before I hit my low bottom, I used to experience the same "speeches" from other low bottoms at meetings. All it did was alienate me.

But from this experience I have learned important things: An alcoholic is an alcoholic, no matter how we may haveperceived how far down the scale he/she has gone. My bottom is MY bottom. I cannot afford to judge the reality of someone else's disease based on the symptoms of my own same disease. I would very much to use the story of my bottom, how God lifted me out of it, and how much better I am today (please notice I say "better", not "perfect") in order to maybe somehow, in my own idiotic way, help someone to go through what I put myself through.

That made sense to me, but then again I am "socially impaired" and quite unexaguratedly suffer from dain bramage from intake of vast amounts of grain alcohol over a long period of time.

If I made sense, I hope I helped,

Bruce T.

[janbear]

No matter how ill intentioned are the actions of another toward you,
your forgiveness signals that you are not willing to participate in
your own victimization. It's a powerful strategy. Forgive, and make
your life more positive, productive, joyful and fulfilling.

Thank you dalin for your post. Practicing forgiveness does always make me feel better and more positive.
Recently i was hurt by words, as a result of your post i can see my part in it now by choosing to stay hurt. Thank you, i can heal my own hurt. I wish i would have seen this thread much earlier.

[rockydeedee]

An alcoholic is an alcoholic, no matter how we may have perceived how far down the scale he/she has gone. My bottom is MY bottom. I cannot afford to judge the reality of someone else's disease based on the symptoms of my own same disease.

Thank you Bruce and nice to meet you! :27::11:

[rockydeedee]

" Lack of forgiveness causes almost all of our self-sabotaging behavior."
Mark Victor Hansen

" Forgiveness means that you do not hold others responsible for your experiences."
Gary Zukav

[Chaz]

Yo Dalin...

I too have had an experience where I needed to forgive significantly... still do really. My Xwife is now married to a former friend. She and I separated and he got in the middle of it ..... it felt like a revolving door.... me-out, him-in. This was after a 12-year marriage with my wife, 3 kids, house, and tons of history.

The hurdle I find hard to forgive over is that there is not one thing that she held against me in ending our marriage that she has not since done herself. The oblivion, insensitivity, selfishness, etc..... and the other-man has not had the guts to face me in over 5 years of turmoil.

So I have progressed from rage, depression and drug/alcohol abuse to soothe it all.... to an attitude of indifference. This is as much as I can do right now. I know I must continue on this path. I feel I am at progress, not perfection yet. I honestly do not know how to get there. The guy is a creep... and I never really did like him to start with.

So for now, I just avoid fuelling my anger and hurt. Eventually, I hope to find forgiveness.... we are getting help from a counselor who believes deeply in forgiveness so I feel we are on a pathway with some hope.

I agree with everything you said in your original post. From my perspective, I would add only one thing. I believe I need to forgive because that is what God wants me to do. It is not primarily for me, nor for the other person, nor for anyone's feelings of what is easier or better. For me, it starts with a simple act of obedience and example of how God is with us.

God as I understand him says, Judge not and you will not be judged and with whatever measuring stick you use for others, that is how you will be measured too. So how can I not forgive? I can't if I truly believe these things.

The benefits are more peace and serentiy in my own heart which then spins off to others.

My take anyway.

Thanks for the post.

Chaz

[Bruce T.]

Just the opinion of the speaker here, but I have found that that feeling of "indifference" to be the beginning or forgiveness. Yes, at first we feel a numbness, but that is a vast improvement over anger, remorse, resentment, desire for retaliation, etc.

And don't forget, forgiveness of self is a very important factor in this most complicated formula.

Wishing you all the best in progress (not as if I don't need it too),

-b

[McDaniel N.]

To forgive is to forget.....and move on:idea:During my practicing in my drinking have never realized the pain I created.They are .......Was My addictive phrase that now sometime the others were sick too.......but now I take the blame for all problems I DONE.RECOVERY is wonderfull:195:Thanks

[Chaz]

Ok... so I am having a lousy forgiveness day. I just really struggle with it.

My wife of 12 years left a few years ago supposedly because I didnt "make her feel loved" and worked too much and was too moody. Fair comments... none of these were untrue.

Yet, she shows up a mere couple months later with the husband of friends of ours who just separated after us. It was all very suspicious... details not important. They are now married. I went nuts when all of this was materializing and drank heavily and started using drugs.

Now my kids spend a ton of time with "him" and I am left with a ****load of bills from the freakin' divorce that I never wanted anyway. I hurt. I have been hurting for years and I cannot seem to shake it. I am mad, I do not yet forgive. The guy is an ulgly freak who does not deserve a woman as beautiful as my ex.

Friends turned against friends and life-long relationships were smashed in the course of their freakin' relationship. It feels like as long as they get what they want they dont give a **** about anyone else. Even if that is true.... why should it matter to my happiness but it does.

I hurt, I am mad, I want to forgive, I have done many things to work on forgiveness, I feel I believe in forgiveness yet I still feel she is a heartless ***** and he is a total gargoyle-freak that deserves a good ****-kickin' in the parking lot.... except that he is not man enough to face me the little spinelss whimp. I called him out one time.... he hid.

Every time I pay child support it pisses me off because I am paying for two households. The whimp just cut his child support to his ex back so now he lives on the money I give for my kids. He is a piece of **** ass-kissin little freak. I have zits on my ass better lookin' than him!

Ok... I know this isnt ideal but it is the truth about my feelings. Having a lousy forgiveness-day... hope it is ok to vent.

[dalin]

I HEAR YOU.
Some days I have to pray my way to surender.
Alot of times I have to pray my way into humility,
and try to live my surender.

[coalminer]

Ok... I know this isnt ideal but it is the truth about my feelings. Having a lousy forgiveness-day... hope it is ok to vent.

Chaz:

Most definitely, I respect "your truth"....

For me; "my truth" is always subject to change, as I change in my recovery and thinking....with new information given me - by my Higher Power...and others in this program....

As I am typing this...and keep in mind I suffer from premature senior "moments"...

Popeye - came to mind....and his saying....

But I can't for the sake of me remember what it is...exactly...

Something like: I is what I is....?????

Keep the faith - my Brother in Recovery....good to hear from you....

[free2bunme]

I have read writings by several respected Christian authors that speak of forgiveness as a process. That the intent to forgive is the most important thing. They even go so far as to urge believers not forgive too soon - meaning feel the process all the way though, just like you would greive any loss: denial, anger, sadness, bargaining, release. They believe that if you can't feel it, you can't heal it. I know this goes against what the authors of the BB advise for us --- i.e. resentments are a luxury that we cannot afford. However, I know that I am personally apt to forgive too soon - to jump straight to forgiveness while completely stuffing any feelings of hurt or anger I feel - to my detrminent. I refuse to be afraid to allow myself to feel anger, just because the BB tells me it is dangerous for me. I cover it immediately with prayer and make the decision to forgive as soon as i am able. that's my 2 cents.

[Bruce T.]

Ok... so I am having a lousy forgiveness day. I just really struggle with it.

My wife of 12 years left a few years ago supposedly because I didnt "make her feel loved" and worked too much and was too moody. Fair comments... none of these were untrue.

Now my kids spend a ton of time with "him" and I am left with a ****load of bills from the freakin' divorce that I never wanted anyway. I hurt. I have been hurting for years and I cannot seem to shake it. I am mad, I do not yet forgive. The guy is an ulgly freak who does not deserve a woman as beautiful as my ex.

Friends turned against friends and life-long relationships were smashed in the course of their freakin' relationship. It feels like as long as they get what they want they dont give a **** about anyone else. Even if that is true.... why should it matter to my happiness but it does.

I hurt, I am mad, I want to forgive, I have done many things to work on forgiveness, I feel I believe in forgiveness yet I still feel she is a heartless ***** ...

Ok... I know this isnt ideal but it is the truth about my feelings. Having a lousy forgiveness-day... hope it is ok to vent.

Venting is okay, my friend. I do it here all the time, sometimes to my embarassmet, sometimes insulting or otherwise offending others, but it needs
to be done in order to get my head screwed back on straight (actually, I think my neck is permanently cross-threaded) and maintain my fragil sobriety.

(Now don't tell anyone this, but I gotta share it with you to help you gain some perspective. My ex left me in '95 for another WOMAN. Think that didn't screw me up?) Shhh ... our secret, buddy. Mum's the word.

All the best,

-Ol' Unkle Ignernt

[free2bunme]

Oh Bruce, you shouldnta told us that. Now I am going to have to start calling you Ross! :lol:

[Bruce T.]

Oh Bruce, you shouldnta told us that. Now I am going to have to start calling you Ross! :lol:

Okay, I give up. Exposing my social ignorance (which is pretty obvious, I suppose): Who is "Ross"?:5:

Thanks, babe

-b

[free2bunme]

yes, also showing my social ignorance :mrgreen: it's not exactly what one would call quality programming!

[Bruce T.]

And to think people don't understand why I just stay with A&E, Discovery Channel and History Channel. Really out of the loop!

-Ol' Unkle Ignernt

[Doraine]

When I heard I had to pray for my ex-husband I couldn't believe it. But I did it and now my resentment is gone. Me and my kids were victims of his abuse for 13 years. Even after I divorced him he still would argue with me. I had to not answer the door when he came to pick up the kids. It is possible to make the decision to forgive. You forgive for you.

[Chaz]

Ok... wow... reading what I wrote several hours ago only reminds me of how far I have to go.

I want so deeply to forgive. I just feel it is fake at this point because I hurt. Part of me wants justice and wants to prove "them" wrong and me right. Yet something tells me clearly that that is all a useless pursuit. Of that I am confident.

Is this not the complex duality of man? The desire to be one way yet being seemingly trapped in another? Is this perhaps what the Apostle Paul wrote when he referred to "doing the things I do not want to do and not doing the things I want to do".... paraphrased... or something like that?

My sense tells me to forgive, but perhaps my pain keeps me from doing it. I grew up in a culture of anger... where if someone wronged someone else, it was Ok to act out in anger. I suppose values that deep are hard to reshape.

I feel trapped. Even though there are many fabulous things going well in my life... the least of which are not my relationship with my kids, my relationship with my girlfriend, and my job.... just to name a few.... hey... I am closing in on 2 years clean/sober.... that should be enough eh?

All I guess I can do is surrender it for another day and do the things I can do... like being responsible with the rest of my life.

I really need help from a power greater than myself because this is way over my head. God grant me the serenity.... please.

Thanks.

Chaz.

[Chaz]

Whoa! I didnt see page 2 with all of your replies... thanks guys (and gals) for your understanding and candidness. I suppose we are all in the same boat in that we are in some manner sensitive people... why else would we have sought refuge for our feelings in chemicals?

So... Doraine, Bruce, Free2, Greg, CoalMiner, Dalin.... thanks.

Chaz

[coalminer]

Is this not the complex duality of man? The desire to be one way yet being seemingly trapped in another? Is this perhaps what the Apostle Paul wrote when he referred to "doing the things I do not want to do and not doing the things I want to do".... paraphrased... or something like that?>>>>

All I guess I can do is surrender it for another day and do the things I can do... like being responsible with the rest of my life.

I really need help from a power greater than myself because this is way over my head. God grant me the serenity.... please.

Thanks.

Chaz.

Oh Chaz:

Do I know that of which you speak......

Seems to me; you are most definitely on the right road and going in the right direction in your quest for inner Peace and Joy....

"God grant me the serenity.... please."

He can and He will....if....we let him...

[Bruce T.]

Hang in there, Chaz. I must admit that at times upon surface self-examination, it's hard to see (because I still confuse my wants with my needs), we do make progress. And if we hang with it and do the best we can, which for me varies from moment to moment, we can get through it all and ACTUALLY HELP OTHERS by sharing our experience, strength and hope, out of mutual love and concern. For free and for fun!

-b

[rockydeedee]

http://th182.photobucket.com/albums/x245/Designerjazz/th_5d5d2c67.jpg

I heard this at a meeting the other day. When you allow a resentment to come into your life it plants a seed. If you let it stay there it will grow like cancer until you use the forgiveness tools to kill it.

[dalin]

dang girl...and I was in a resentment up to my @$$...rear end,
and was just feeling self rightchous...
Thanks

[coalminer]

Good Morning All:

(((dalin)))

Your presence is felt all over the board; and for me, this specific thread was a catalyst in helping me to open up my mind; heart and soul - leading to some "changes" in "My truth"...and I thank you for being an important part of my recovery - an instrument of His peace in my life.

As I often find myself challenged in getting the "words" out - many times - my HP does for me what I am not able to do for myself...

The quote below is from the first place I start my morning meditation in and today; it speaks for me...so thought I would take one more kick at the can...before the thread fades into history....
Thursday, September 13, 2007

Meditation
Luke 6:27-38

Jesus, our Redeemer, has a claim upon our love. When we were lost in sin and unaware of his love, he laid down his perfect life to rescue us from eternal darkness and death. And he did this not only for us but for every person, even those who will never respond to his love.

Jesus’ love knows no limits, and now he summons us to love as fully as he does. Of course, we all feel inclined to love those who love us; but how can we love our enemies? How can we love those who have opposed us or hurt us? How are we supposed to love people with conflicting views, competing religious beliefs, or radically different ethnic backgrounds?

Through Christ, that’s how. He has made us God’s children, receivers of his grace. And by that grace, he has made us capable of showering everyone with his forgiveness, kindness, and love—even those who happen to oppose us.

In today’s Gospel, as always, Jesus is not asking anything of us that he himself has not already done. Does he call you to love God with all your heart and strength all the time? Does he call you to love other people with utter faithfulness? Yes, he does.

This would be impossible had he not come to live in you and love through you. Remember, he isn’t asking that you feel like loving everyone, only that you become willing to obey his word. Every time you treat someone the way you want to be treated, regardless of how you feel, God’s grace flows through you.

Day in and day out you can trust in this truth: God loves you. Over and over again he tells you, “Your sins are forgiven. Go and sin no more.” So look into your heart and do your best to forgive your enemies.

Jesus is not asking too much. All we need to do is say that we are willing, and he will make us children of the Most High, who share his love even for the ungrateful and the selfish (Luke 6:35).

“Holy Spirit, show me how to love my enemies. I pray for all my brothers and sisters who are challenged to love me. May the world come to know your love, Lord, so that everything that has breath can praise you.”
Colossians 3:12-17; Psalm 150:1-6

http://www.wau.org/meditations/meditations.asp

[flickchic]

Hiya all, I can relate well to finding it hard to forgive ex's.....I have had three abusive r/ships, my husband was emtionally abusive, my next two partners abusive in all ways. The father of my 9 year old daughter and half guardian of my 10 year old son I still struggle with to this day, however I can honestly own that it is getting easier and I have found ways of keeping my boundries in place and approaching issues with him without upsetting the balance re the kids....He manged to screw my house from me and much of the contents because I ended up so twisted around I went into a psych unit for a while and then walked out on the r/ship and sadly those two kids, I couldn't deal with him at all. I have long resented paying maintenance to him when I see the kids goin without, and believe me when I was working on the mine site he good **** good maintenance from me, and still does relatively well while I am on worker's comp....I try to tell myself that the kids benefit from the money I hand over, and to a degree they do, however I see them go without at times also and find myself footing school, sport and musical tuition fees on top of what I already pay, yes of course I will do it, why ought they go without when I can afford to support them further???......to this day this man still denies any abuse even though I had him charged and convicted of assault a few years back, he and I have been separated for 9 years this month, and it still bites me at times.....

I would like to add that it does get easier, it has for me, my biggest aid being God, since coming into recovery I have learnt to look at how emotionally and mentally unwell this man is and to try my hardest to have some compassion for him, he really must be a very lonely man on the inside and he is such a woman hater....sad shame that....he was adopted and I know he has major abandonment issues, and I can relate to that. He still creeps me out because I know he is such a liar and it doesn't matter how often he gets caught out he continues along in his own little word of denial. At the end of the day though he is still one of God's flock and yes God would have me forgive this man and have compassion for such a lost soul. Hard, but I have seen how it benefits the children and myself and those around me when I do not lash out at him, create disgruntlements by 'attacking him' when I have an issue with him. If nothing else he is teaching me patience and how to better approach 'difficult people' in my life with strength and boundries.

And don't forget, forgiveness of self is a very important factor in this most complicated formula.
I totally agree, I so dislike me when I become angry and ugly at this man, it shows in my communications and interactions with others when I have allowed myself to be less than toward him and I have had to learn to forgive me for treating him as less than God would have me do so.

How can we love those who have opposed us or hurt us? How are we supposed to love people with conflicting views, competing religious beliefs, or radically different ethnic backgrounds?
with great difficulties at times however I believe that if we make every effort to see these people as one of God's flock, another brother or sister as we would people that we easily love then we are able to move toward some acceptance at least of the fact that these people too deserve love and compassion as we would wish for ourselves.

my 50c worth, thank's for letting me share and for listening.:1:

flick:D