What Lengths????

[Ed C.]

Hi Y'all

Let's try this one. In the chapter of "How It Works" pg. 59 it states: "If you have decided you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it-then you are ready to take certain steps". My qusetion to you is, what length is it that we have to go to, to get what "they" have? And what is it that "they" have, that we want?

Love and respect, Ed C.

[Bruce T.]

I have to change only one thing - everything. What they have that I want is peace of mind, rational thinking, comeraderie and an attitude of helpfullness.

-b

[fibiray]

As bruce said everything I had to change most importantly was my old ideas.This has taken time because there were old ideas that I had that I didn't realise that I had. It has been a process to change these some were easy some not so easy. The thing is it is really easy to slip back to the old stinking thinking, the old ideas, the old dishonesty if I do not monitor for these thoughts. thanks for letting me share.

fi
xxx

[Ed C.]

Hi All,

Sometimes I think that a question so simple might just get an easy answer, but it just isn't so. The answer to this very easy question is found only a few chapters away from "How It Works". " Reminding ourselves that we have decided to go to any lengths to find a spiritual experience, we ask that we be given strength and direction to do the right thing, no matter what the personal consequences may be". "Into Action" pg. 79

This might be construed as a change of the pyschic kind and we might have to do whatever it takes to achieve this experience, but it seems to me that if we follow the 12 steps it will happen with relative ease. Simply put is we will achieve what it is that "they" have (sobriety) by going to any lengths (coming to believe in a higher power (God) and turning our wills and lives over to Him).

With love and respect, Ed C.

P.S. Greg it's not nice to call anyone stupid! Even yourself!

[Bruce T.]

Greg,

How could anyone find that offensive? Bein' a "smart guy" lead me to alcoholism and drug abuse, and kept me overcomplicating a simple program for years. I HAD to quit being the pseudo-intellectual that I was and take the BB and 12 steps at face value and stop "reading between the lines". It's all printed in black - the white space is just that - space.

Thanks,

-b

[Doll]

.....what length is it that we have to go to, to get what "they" have? And what is it that "they" have, that we want?

.For me, it's exactly as it's stated "any length" ! I've had days where if my sponsor told me to standing on my head with rocks in my mouth was the "length" I needed to go to stay sober, I'd would glady do it! "they" are the ones who have good quality sobriety, who work the 12 steps to the best of their abilty, have become humble and honest, share their reality and genuinely care for the rest of us......

[Ed C.]

Hi Doll and all,

For me, it's exactly as it's stated "any length" ! I've had days where if my sponsor told me to standing on my head with rocks in my mouth was the "length" I needed to go to stay sober, I'd would glady do it! "they" are the ones who have good quality sobriety, who work the 12 steps to the best of their abilty, have become humble and honest, share their reality and genuinely care for the rest of us....

It seems to me that I too would have done about anything to get sober, but what we skip over is the fact that what we are shooting for is the spiritual experience. If you don't get that, then the rest doesn't happen!

You mention the reality of sobriety that is being shared between those who have experienced it. This is exactly what I'm talking about! This is what is being explained in the Big Book. We have to be honest and caring with one another, and especially we have to be honest with ourselves. To be honest we have to understand what reality is! We work with one another to understand that! You share a little bit, I share a little bit, the rest of the people here share a little bit and realize that it takes all of this to make up the reality of this.

It just seems to me that sometimes when I write something that the way I see it that there are quite a few people believe that I'm trying to make this complicated. I'm not! I'm sharing this stuff directly out of what is being said in the book. Right out of the black and white pages of the first 164. It is said that we have to work intensly with one another to have this work. That means we have to take this seriously and dig as deep as we can to understand the reality of this.

Sure it is very easy to just say to me and other alcoholics, "I'm an alkie that is powerless over alcohol and I don't have any idea how to manage my life", but this program goes a lot deeper than that and it can't all be said in 164 pages.

I'm here to tell you all, that under no circumstance will I ever write something in this forum just to put down some words. Believe me when I say that I have put many hours of reading and study into the words I write in here. No matter what anyone may believe it is what this alcoholic needs to do to stay sober. It's just my hope that the intense study that I put into this is not misconstrued to be anything other than me trying to help in sharing a little bit of the reality of this the way I and a lot of others see it! With love and respect, Ed C.

PS: Oh yeah and Greg what I'm saying is that calling anyone names even though the name may fit the situation is not very spiritual. See I don't care what others might say about me or what they think, because in reading the words of the Big Book I have learned that we alkies are pretty sensitive people, if we truly practice the steps in all of our affairs in doesn't matter what anyone says! Keep it simple is just as easily said as adding some type of negative noun to get the point across!

[Ed C.]

What Lengths? = I have to keep an open mind.

Me too Greg!



Early In my sobriety I heard the acronym KISS,Keep it Simple Stupid and it helped to remind me that I didn't need to complicate the simple program of recovery. I didn't come up with the saying, I didn't particularly like it, but it helped me.This is my reality that I can share. Actually , now I think its pretty funny and helpful.

Heard the same acronym and the on the flip side I felt it to be funny at first and now the more I think about it, the more insulting it seems to say to someone! L&R Ed C.

[allaflutter]

How far is any length?... To place just as much...if not more work into my desire to remain clean and sober as I did to obtain my alcohol & other chemicals..
Willing to go to any lengths is directly proportiona to the desperate wilkingness for the pain to stop and the desire to feel alive.

What they had was peace, serenity, cledar thinking, ...They had hope and humor...Love and tolerance...helpfulness, respect for themselves & for others...the list could go on and on and on.....and

KISS was changed for me to read..."Keep It Simple Silly"... or..."Keep It Simple Sweety" had been called stupid all my life3...and was told in recovery it was ok to be gentle with me. So I stopped calling myself names. Just my expereince

[Clean&Serene]

What we have and the lengths one needs to go to get it ..."Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of working these steps ..."

[david monteith]

hello my name is david,i'm an alcoholic
thanks for your topic ed c.
it's great to have my ideas challenged.you do that.
there is no need to use the word stupid,it is insulting.i know about insulting,i have been an expert in that field my whole life.it is by going to any length in this programme,that i was fortunate enough to identify this major defect in myself.
it is saturday morning down here in johannesburg s. africa and it is great to be part of this beautiful fellowship.
david m

[allaflutter]

Hi david. and a Great saturday morning to you

Thank Yiou for your post.. It is refreshing to hear another suggest and remind us of not only keeping it simple but also the need to be gentle withourselves and others and to remind us that Love and tolerance is our code.
Name calling weather it be to ourselves or others is a form of character assisination and as Children of a loving God I to have discovered he does not like Child abusers