Anonymity

[rockergirl]

Recently the subject of anonymity has come up up within my fellowship.I don't
think many people understand what this means or they don't care.I value the traditions of narcotics anonymous, and a few members have taken stuff out of a meeting a member has shared and it got back to there employer and could have cost them there job.This has been brought to group level explaining the importance of anonymity and how it protects it's members.However it continues to happen if anyone has any ideas on how to handle this I would greatly appreciate it Thank you.
Toni

[Chaz]

Rocker....

None of us should be so naive to assume that a bunch of sick people are airtight with anonymity. It just cant happen. To me, anonymity is the goal and principle that most SHOULD adhere to, however, if the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop using... then the bar is pretty low on who can and cannot join. Anonymity is not even a requirement! It is a foundational principle.... but not a requirement.

I do not consider my meetings completely anonymous. I presume that at some point, word will get around that I am a member. If it hurts me, oh well. Frankly, my program has made me into something I never dreamed I could be (for the positive). So if someone finds out that I am a member of AA and NA, so be it. It would be a testament to the program.

I uphold anonymity of myself and others to the utmost of my ability. I would prefer my anonymity was not broken... I feel the program is most effective when members remain anonymous. If it were a huge concern to me, I would attend only closed meetings.

My thoughts anyway.

[free2bunme]

I never thought much about the Principle of Anonymity until recently ... because I was so happy to finally be "out" about my probems --- it had been a family secret which I had been encourage to keep for years --- that I wanted to shout it from the roof tops, who cares! If you judged me, I thought - that's your problem, I don't want you in my life anyway! Well, that has changed recently as I am finally growing into my 3 year old self and realizing that everyone does not share my passion for airing out my dirty laundry, so to speak! I am finally getting enough growth and other awareness to want to respect and uphold this principle, for others' sake, and for the good of the ENTIRE fellowship. That's me, right now. Peace out :)

[clean42day]

None of us should be so naive to assume that a bunch of sick people are airtight with anonymity. It just cant happen. To me, anonymity is the goal and principle that most SHOULD adhere to, however, if the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop using... then the bar is pretty low on who can and cannot join. Anonymity is not even a requirement! It is a foundational principle.... but not a requirement.

Principals are hopefully guidlines like the traditions to be respected - however they cannot be "ENFORCED"! it is impossible to enforce with punitive consequences the tradition of anonymity. It is also unrealistic (as stated above) to expect a bunch of emotionally unwell people to agree, adhere, and live perfectly by the traditions at all times......yes it is and ideal and something we strive for, but Just like the ideals we strive for in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights in the U.S.....it is not always something we achieve with perfection in the end result.

The AA system is NOT PERFECT....

did you know the origional reason for anonymity?

origionally anonymity was the spiritual principal written to protect the fellowship - from the individual. They didn't want a whole bunch of people on fire for the program running around announcing their membership to the social stuctures of the times and then relapsing and giving the fellowship a bad rap, nor did they want the individual going around collecting money in the name of AA, nor did they want the stereotyping of the times to mess with the fragility of AA when it was new....there were a whole bunch of reasons but the primary reason was to protect the fellowship as a whole first and then the individual membership. Now anonymity means a whole new thing and it is suppose to work both ways: protect the fellowship from the individuals and to protect the individuals right to recover in a safe place also....but as I said - it is suppose to work in thoery and that is all based on respect. how can you enforce respect? Well you certainly can't deny the violator membership....however the individual who suffered the damage can certainly sue the person in violation for defamation of character and that is a whole new outside issue.

We don't get here "emotionally well adjusted individuals" that is something we hopefully grow into spiritually from working the steps and by living them and the traditions into life itself.

Good luck with this one!

light and love

gail

[Crankie Yankee]

AA and NA meetings, amounst others, are not a well spring of mental health. Watch what you say around here as well! :cool:

[admin]

Watch what you say anywhere.

[Bruce T.]

I'm as honest as which of I am capable of who/what I am, where and how I live, but still feel that I am as anonymous as I can be ... ain't none of y'all dropped in on me physically for a visit ... I consider that blessing on both our accounts. Y'all should also.

But let's not confuse the concept of "anonymity" with held-back "shares from the heart".

Did that make sense? It did to me, anyway. But then again, I'm not the most articulate person on this planet, either. But that don't keep me from openly, and quite oftenly misunderstandably sharing.

What the heck did all that mean? Don't ask me ... dain bramage, y'know.

All the best,

-Ol' Unkle Ignernt

[clean42day]

I thought watching what I say went along with practicing step 10 in action and not waiting till the end of the night to access the damage :neutral: doesn't that kind of go along with personal integrity and prudence? Maybe I am wrong but I think integrity and prudence also applies to the concept of anonymity....... :idea: just a thought.

what I was taught is that I am obligated by the very gift I have been given to break my anonymity when ever a drunk reaches out for help.....in some ways by breaking my own personal anonymity in a situation like that I then become an embasador for AA/NA and at the very least an example the AA?NA way of life.

in all other life situaitons - my own personal anonymity of being a recovering addict is left up to my own prudence and my own discression. I can break my anonymity and tell people I am in recovery without saying what affiliation of membership I belong to.....and yes I have been asked directly before and you know what my answer is? I belong to a 12 step self help group - which still preserves the fellowships anonymity - because there are about a million of them.

But under no circumstances do I have the right to break someone elses anonymity......wihtout that safety net......there would be no safe meeting to go to and recover.....and what about all the people in the future who are going to need to take a seat of safety in our meetings?

I will be the first to say that I am not always politically correct, but I don't have twisted intentions of saying something to diliberatly hurt someone and then claiming the right to freedom of speach.

Like Tammy said: Watch what you say anywhere - for me means honoring the 4 agreements that I also live by:

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j224/gail_ve/TheFourAgreements.jpg


addressing the origional concern of this thread However it continues to happen if anyone has any ideas on how to handle this I would greatly appreciate it Thank you.


this quote comes to mind..................

Eleanor Roosevelt once said, “Great minds talk about ideas, average minds talk about events, and small minds talk about people.”


All I can really control is my mind.

I would stick with talking about the idea a anonymity at the meeting level, why it is a tradition, why it is important, what purpose it serves, and how it preserves the unity that is precious to the fellowship as well as the integrity and "right to recover" for the individual.

and I would leave talking about the particular people who broke the tradition or continue to break it - in Gods hands and pray for their recovery, as well as the people who have been damaged by it.

light and love

Gail

[Crankie Yankee]

What you have said makes perfect sense to me Bruce T. Well put. But isn't it funny how the attitude or demeanor of someone can get lost in the translation of a post and it's up to the reader to decipher or figure out where the poster is coming from, whether it's from a positive or a negative state of mind. Therefore, the attitude or demeanor of a person posting on this website, or "anywhere" can be completely "anonymous" as well. :162:

[Bruce T.]

Perhaps I should just shut my pie hole and listen, but I most often find it therapeutic to express myself and live with the social consequences, of which I obviously do not give a tinker's **** about anyway. I'm very selfish about working my program, offensively to others or not.

Once again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiGZblapKic

-b

[janbear]

Tradition twelve in the Basic Text of Narcotics anonymous says "what is said in meetings stays in meetings." Recently i had a personal issue with this where i shared from the heart in a meeting and with an individual. By nightfall it was all repeated at another group. My anonymity and trust broken. I was reminded how "people will be people". And reminded of the full content of Tradition Twelve which says:

"Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our traditions, every reminding us to place principles before personalitites"

All i could do at that point was practice the principle of forgivenesss. It took a while but i finally recieved some freedom from all of it when i let Go and let God.

Toni, i think just continuing to read and study the Twelth Tradition cant hurt. I wish i could say more that would help. One group i go to seems to struggle with that principle as well. Don't give up.

[allaflutter]

"We ara an undisciplined lot' Which means I get to learn discipline and responsibility today...Anonymity is important..and we are human. Some grow slowly.some grow quickly..If I remain disciplined..Hope fully I am an example for others.. When someone approaches me to discuss another person..or ask aboyut another person..My response...If you want to klnow about...Then maybe you should ask them" and/or..I say "For me that borders on gossips..I don't participate in that today."

I have had my anonymity broke...Once it did cost me a job...another was jsut recently here where I live..another person told the apartment manager..
It really is up to me and me alone to break my own anonymity.
What is said in meetings is to remain in meetings..
If something is repeated that was said in a meeting it is important to not attach a person's name to it.

People are people ...not perfect..It is progress rather than perfection...
Love and tolerance is our code..one of the many meanings of tolerance is allowing the others to grow at their own pace.

[Chaz]

I had an experience with broken anonymity and broken confidentiality that was hurtful, but yet, a tremendous learning experience.

I had an individual who was very enthusiastic to help people in the program. He was, in fact, imposing. It felt like he forced his message on others. His sharing was a continual recitation of his bad-boy resume. It got a little tiring.

The individual was... well.... shall we say rather "unique" looking and on might conclude he may be overcompensating for what may have been social rejection of his appearance. Hard to say... but that is what it appeared to be.

I went through a terrible time in my life including a relapse. This guy was right there to offer "help". He ran a recovery house. He prided himself in "helping people find bottom". He would actually do everything he could to make a person's world crumble as fast as possible so that they could hit bottom.

For me, he went to my family and told them everything he believed I was doing and experiencing. A great deal of it were ridiculous embellishments and untruths. His embellishments and untruths then left him in the position to be a hero and save me and the situation. Unfortunately, it ended up being tremendously costly to me. He disclosed to my ex-wife the content (his twisted interpretation) of what went on in an intervention my family did on me. Can you imagine? All of his disclosures were self-serving to make himself look better.

He lied telling them that I had done drugs I never did and made threats and done all sorts of dangerous things. This resulted in my ex seeking soul-custody of our kids... it was a costly court battle and huge, huge comotion.

The truth eventually revealed itself and his lies were exposed. Unfortunately, much of the damage was done and it cost me a ton of money.

I am getting angry just typing this out. On the other hand, I realized how much I learned about anonymity, truth, confidentiality, and personal growth and perserverance. It made me a stronger perosn able to help others in a way I never could.

The self-serving guy is still living in a sad mess. His world is empty and false. He is broke. A very influential professional has cut him off over this matter. So do I need to seek vengance? Well sounds like life is bringing this whole thing into balance without my help. He is reaping what he sowed.

Confidentiality... anonymity... both are critical... both are what are intended... yet neither are guaranteed in our program. In spite of broken anonymity, our program works tremendously.

Ciao.

Chaz

[Chaz]

I had an experience with broken anonymity and broken confidentiality that was hurtful, but yet, a tremendous learning experience.

I had an individual who was very enthusiastic to help people in the program. He was, in fact, imposing. It felt like he forced his message on others. His sharing was a continual recitation of his bad-boy resume. It got a little tiring.

The individual was... well.... shall we say rather "unique" looking and on might conclude he may be overcompensating for what may have been social rejection of his appearance. Hard to say... but that is what it appeared to be.

I went through a terrible time in my life including a relapse. This guy was right there to offer "help". He ran a recovery house. He prided himself in "helping people find bottom". He would actually do everything he could to make a person's world crumble as fast as possible so that they could hit bottom.

For me, he went to my family and told them everything he believed I was doing and experiencing. A great deal of it were ridiculous embellishments and untruths. His embellishments and untruths then left him in the position to be a hero and save me and the situation. Unfortunately, it ended up being tremendously costly to me. He disclosed to my ex-wife the content (his twisted interpretation) of what went on in an intervention my family did on me. Can you imagine? All of his disclosures were self-serving to make himself look better.

He lied telling them that I had done drugs I never did and made threats and done all sorts of dangerous things. This resulted in my ex seeking soul-custody of our kids... it was a costly court battle and huge, huge comotion.

The truth eventually revealed itself and his lies were exposed. Unfortunately, much of the damage was done and it cost me a ton of money.

I am getting angry just typing this out. On the other hand, I realized how much I learned about anonymity, truth, confidentiality, and personal growth and perserverance. It made me a stronger perosn able to help others in a way I never could.

The self-serving guy is still living in a sad mess. His world is empty and false. He is broke. A very influential professional has cut him off over this matter. So do I need to seek vengance? Well sounds like life is bringing this whole thing into balance without my help. He is reaping what he sowed.

Confidentiality... anonymity... both are critical... both are what are intended... yet neither are guaranteed in our program. In spite of broken anonymity, our program works tremendously.

Ciao.

Chaz

[Montauktammy]

anonymity

The quality or state of being obscure: namelessness, obscurity. See knowledge/ignorance.
namelessness


The quality or state of being obscure: anonymity, obscurity. See knowledge/ignorance.
obscurity

Deficiency or absence of light; darkness.
The quality or condition of being unknown: “Even utter obscurity need not be an obstacle to [political] success” (New Republic).
One that is unknown.
The quality or condition of being imperfectly known or difficult to understand: “writings meant to be understood . . . by all, composed without deliberate obscurity or hidden motives” (National Review).
An instance of being imperfectly known or difficult to understand.

A lot of people say what you see and hear in this meeting should stay in this meeting, for me only I have to look up what words mean so that I am not misinformed. To be nameless for me means that I am no longer unique. I become we.
:42:

[allaflutter]

Montau

Thank you.
"To be nameless for me means that I am no longer unique. I become we."

It was a real lesson for me to fully comprehend the importance of becoming "WE"

Over the holidays another member took something I shared at meeting level and shared it with an outlaw...er I mean an inlaw who has been continuously trashihng me even to my own family. Just last night something came back he had said which I know shows his own immaturity and but it really hurt. I also know that folks that really know me know his opinions are from a sick and diseased mind as he is still out there.

Can you imagine a 6 year old [my great neice] coming in and asking me why her uncle referred to me as a F___ing B___h and asked me what that meant? She asked several more question, one of which was specifically referring to something I had shared ONLY at a meeting. His "best friend" is a member. Now I don't feel safe in sharing a great many things.

Thankfully I can come on the forums and I have a sponsor reminding me to pray for him.

[Montauktammy]

:42:AllaFlutter
There has come a time for me that if I need to get something out in a meeting, I have to take the risk or keep it with my net work who I know would not do that. I have had some pretty bad things said about me some true and some not. My relationship was broken up by me sharing in a meeting that I was thinking about using, my boyfriend at the time got scared he had only just come up on a year. I was up set very up set at first, but now I can see that he is not the man I want if he dosen't understand that we all have these thoughts. So he was removed from my life, not by the person who was telling my stuff, but by my higher power who opened my eyes.
Thank you
Love
Tammy

[Colter]

We share our stories at meetings "in a general way". :neutral:

We use our sponsor, councilor, Rabbi, minister, best friend etc, for more personal/private problems.:2::42:




Colter

[Montauktammy]

Sometimes I need to get something out and I don't know who it may help there are times when I share things in a meeting that I just need to heard. How would I know any one in a meeting if I did not get that identification. So yes in a general way but there will be times for me that I will have no choice but to get to the exact nature, of something and spill it at a meeting, after all I am not here for the reason of keeping secrets about myself. I am here to be honest about who I am. " the truth is the truth and the truth touches the spirit" when I get to the truth it touches me and others. When others hear the truth in a meeting about me they can be sick and twist it into something bad or they can carry the truth. I however am powerless. My job is to be honest about me, and tell the truth. "We are only as sick as our secrets":15:

[allaflutter]

Thank You. You all are such an inspiration to me and I needed the reminders you have shared.

Hugs