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06-19-2006, 07:15 AM
<b>Clean42day</b> - Fri 06 Jan, 2006 6:17 pm<br />
<b>Post subject: </b>working 4th step again.............<hr width=95% class="sep"/>
<span style="color:blue">I was taught that we work the steps in a circular fashion. my sponsor told me that every few years or so we work another 4th and 5th step to stay spiritually fit. for those of you who have done this.....What is the main difference other than the amount of material to put on paper? do we dig deeper? is there another level of understanding that we reach? is the second time around more mature or more enlightening,.......just wondering if some of you could share your experience with this.
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thank you for any and all replies in advance <img src="images/smiles/1.gif" alt="ok" border="0" /> </span> <hr />
<b>Cassie</b> - Fri 06 Jan, 2006 6:41 pm<br />
<b>Post subject: </b><hr width=95% class="sep"/>
I am working on another 4th Step because of all that has happened to me since I did the last one. Not only can I look back and see where I went wrong, I can make a plan so it will be a learning experience and I don't make the same mistake again.
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Hope this helps.
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<img src="images/smiles/46.gif" alt="smile" border="0" /> <img src="images/smiles/45.gif" alt="hug" border="0" /> <img src="images/smiles/20.gif" alt="smile" border="0" /> <hr />
<b>zoomie</b> - Sat 07 Jan, 2006 8:53 am<br />
<b>Post subject: </b><hr width=95% class="sep"/>
Hi, I was told by my sponcer once you are done with the 4th and 5th you are done and the other steps are there for you to maintain your program.
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It is interesting how some do the 4th and 5th again though. Good luck!!! <hr />
<b>Cassie</b> - Sat 07 Jan, 2006 12:27 pm<br />
<b>Post subject: </b><hr width=95% class="sep"/>
<div align="center"><div class="codetitle">zoomie wrote:</div><div class="quotediv">Hi, I was told by my sponcer once you are done with the 4th and 5th you are done and the other steps are there for you to maintain your program.
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It is interesting how some do the 4th and 5th again though. Good luck!!!</div></div>
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Guess I haven't gotten to the 100% success in maintenance yet! <img src="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif" alt="Wink" border="0" /> Ever hopeful thought and grateful. <img src="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="Very Happy" border="0" /> <hr />
<b>zoomie</b> - Sat 07 Jan, 2006 1:58 pm<br />
<b>Post subject: </b><hr width=95% class="sep"/>
LOL me either,but I do try! <hr />
<b>Baritone</b> - Sat 07 Jan, 2006 7:06 pm<br />
<b>Post subject: </b><hr width=95% class="sep"/>
A while ago i was telling someone with a lot of sobriety that i needed to do another fourth step, and was going into detail of my reasoning of what was wrong with my original fourth step, when he broke in with "well of course it wasn't very good, it was your first fourth step". Meaning that when we're new we don't see things all that clearly.
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But i will say that my first fourth step was a load of poop. Not that i was lying or hiding anything, but looking back i was more concerned with writing down what i thought my sponsor wanted to hear, the way he wanted it written, than with an honest look at myself. I've since come to see how people-pleasing, or more specifically fear of what i think people will think of me, was one of my major defects, prompting a whole new look at a 4th step inventory for me.
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- Jim <hr />
<b>fibiray</b> - Sun 08 Jan, 2006 8:26 am<br />
<b>Post subject: </b><hr width=95% class="sep"/>
I think that many of us have to do a second 4th step for the simple reason that our memories are damaged when we first come in and when we are first attempting to do this step. I myself had to do another one as my mind began to clear and certain events began to jolt back into my memory. This is not to say that I deliberately left them out but at the time I did the best I could with what I had. Things seem to unravel in their own time and accord so I deal with them as they arise if need to be. Some people may feel it not necessary to do another one and just include it in their step 10. either way so long as they are getting addressed and dealth with that is all that matters really. Having some time under your belt does help as you are then aware of what you are responsible for and what you are not. Furthermore when other stuff came up later I was well aware of my defects of charcter by then but the event was just a reminder of exactly where my defects had taken me. <hr />
<b>bry</b> - Sun 08 Jan, 2006 9:08 am<br />
<b>Post subject: </b><hr width=95% class="sep"/>
I can only think of a couple of reasons I would do a second fourth step. Myself I relapsed after a number of years sober so I began at step one. The other reason would be if I couldn't continue through steps 5-12 then maybe there's is something wrong with how I'm working my program in general. If I'm practicing step 10 on a consistant basis I have no real need to do another 4th step. I stuggled to get where I am and don't want to go backward anymore. <hr />
<b>Doraine</b> - Sun 08 Jan, 2006 9:35 pm<br />
<b>Post subject: </b><hr width=95% class="sep"/>
I worked a second 4th step recently after being sober 18 years. A lot happened between my first 4th and my second 4th step. It was different than my first. I did it to make sure I was on track. I went a few years without going to meetings. I stayed sober but wasn't working a 12 step program. <hr />
<b>Paul T</b> - Wed 11 Jan, 2006 6:16 am<br />
<b>Post subject: </b><hr width=95% class="sep"/>
I never understood people who said they did the steps on a yearly basis. Surely we do steps 1 to 9, and live in 10 to 12?
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Then I did another set of steps. Wow! Talk about a new experience and a new understanding! I am now one of those who do the steps on a yearly basis.
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Specifically on a step 4, there is a deeper/different understanding when doing it again. As suggested above, memory improves for one thing, but other things that my early sobriety thought was not an issue were in fact an issue. Not much was replicated but a lot of stuff was still there. Defintiely worth doing more than once (in my opinion).
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When I sponsor someone I go through the steps with them anyway, so I'm not sure how someone can only do it once. My idea of sponsoring is to share the experience, not tell someone what to do. So I also have that chance to have a new experience, a new understanding and a deeper spiritual experience with sponsees.
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One last thing if I may. When you are at meetings or a conference, find out who has done the steps more than once and who hasn't. See if there is a difference in how they think, act and talk. I was genuinly surprised that all those who I admired and all those who had something I aimed for had done the steps multiple times. Those who had done it once were well and sober but did not have the presence and inner peace I saw in others.
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Remember: good is the enemy of the best.
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Obviously, this is my own experience and my own thoughts. Others have their own which are just as valid in their sobriety. <hr />
<b>Cassie</b> - Wed 11 Jan, 2006 7:34 am<br />
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<img src="images/smiles/goodpoint.gif" alt="good point" border="0" />
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Well said Paul T. Thanks. <hr />
<b>zoomie</b> - Wed 11 Jan, 2006 8:36 am<br />
<b>Post subject: </b><hr width=95% class="sep"/>
Not to argue,but pointing fingers and making statments such as you just did and judging people's program,is not a very healthy AA thing to do.
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My sponcer is a well loved man,he is dying with only doing one step 4. He has the admeration and love from all in our group. He is a quiet man that gave his service to others with out any need for thanks. He had been a GSR for our group and secretary for almost 3 years and made coffee on top of it all. He had many sponcees. Some never got sober and some did,but not once did anyone call him bossy. I guess it's all where you live and what your group thinks. Our group thinks it's fine to do only one step four and five and live the rest of the program day to day.
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We have several hundred memebers. I think Cassie just wanted to know was there a differnce. I do not think there is a difference so much as each person or group does the program in his or her own way. I feel that if I do steps 10,11, and 12 each day that I would have no need for another 4th and 5th. My past is over,nor do I regret it or wish to shut the door on it. We all use our ESH to help the new commer. It's not quantity,it's quality. I think I did a great job on my 4th and 5th and was very honest. I had done another 4th step before I relapsed,therefore I was starting new again,so I did everything all over. So I feel if you relapsed then you should do another 4th and 5th,but if your sober your sober no matter how many 4th and 5ths you do. <hr />
<b>bluidkiti</b> - Wed 11 Jan, 2006 10:24 am<br />
<b>Post subject: </b><hr width=95% class="sep"/>
I have done a couple of 4th and 5th steps. When I relapsed and I had also gotten another sponsor (which is also the sponsor I have now) I did another 4th and 5th step with her. She brought up the subject of doing a 4th step and I said to her I had already done one with another sponsor before. She said well, you haven't done one with me. As I said, I had relapsed and then I got her as my sponsor when I came back. So I did the 4th step and did the 5th step with her. She said I did a great job. I feel the 4th step I did with her was more thorough than the first one I did with my first sponsor. She hasn't asked me to do another 4th step though I did sort of do another mini 4th step with her several months later on something else that came up.
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I like what I heard this one old timer say in a meeting once - "what works to keep me sober just might get you drunk." I also like to each his own. So to each his own. Whatever works, do it. <img src="images/smiles/1.gif" alt="ok" border="0" /> <hr />
<b>Carol87</b> - Wed 11 Jan, 2006 10:39 am<br />
<b>Post subject: </b><hr width=95% class="sep"/>
Oh My! <img src="images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt="Rolling Eyes" border="0" /> It only took me three years to do my 4th step ... was it thorough? <img src="images/smiles/icon_confused.gif" alt="Confused" border="0" /> As thorough as I could do at the time. No, I haven't done a COMPLETE 4th and 5th again; however, on many occasions I have done a 'mini' 4th and 5th on specific issues. Plus - since doing my one and only complete 4th, I have discussed many of the issues that were not thoroughly covered the first time with my sponsor. That worked for ME. <img src="images/smiles/17.gif" alt="nod" border="0" />
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I agree with Tammy ... do what is RIGHT FOR YOU ... <img src="images/smiles/tothineownself.jpg" alt="to thine own self" border="0" /> <hr />
<b>vlrknicks</b> - Wed 11 Jan, 2006 11:52 am<br />
<b>Post subject: </b><hr width=95% class="sep"/>
I have done several 4th Steps in my sobriety. In my 10th year my sponsor suggested I do an inventory on an issue which continued to trouble me - insecurity in relationships. My copdependency was so rampant in my life. I lived in fear of rejection, abandonment. Doing this 4th Step gave me the clarity about my part and struggles. Learning to admit my controlling behavior made huge difference in all my relationships. Done 4th Steps with finances, sexual issues that continued to be a problem for me in recovery. By doing a 4th step on a specific area that caused me pain can offer hope. And hope, I have learned is what fosters willingness to change. My sponsor pointed out to me that it's very unlikely you will change a behavior until you have seen how clearly this behavior has disrupted your serenity. My opinion only - Stepwork requires acceptance which I believe is the key to the 4th Step. I accept that any effort I make will be imperfect. I accept that this is okay. I accept that looking at the past is necessary if I want to find serenity in the present. And that changing any aspect of the present can come only after I have understood the past. I accept that life is a process and tomorrow will offer us another opportunity to learn and grow. I do not have to do a 4th Step alone ever...I found serenity in the knowledge that I am not on this path by accident, but clearly by design. I have been graced by my loving God, who is at my side every STEP I take.
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Peace Vic <img src="images/smiles/46.gif" alt="smile" border="0" /> <hr />
<b>Clean42day</b> - Thu 12 Jan, 2006 4:37 pm<br />
<b>Post subject: </b><hr width=95% class="sep"/>
<span style="color:blue">Wow thanks to all of you for your input....
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I was taught that alcoholism and addiction are but symptoms of deeper underlying issues that make us maladjusted to life.
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after pealing away layers my first 4th and 5th revealed some prety disturbing and dysfunctional belief systems.
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The core root of my dysfunction began in Co-dependency. I either felt responsible for the world or a victim of it. for me this is where most of my unmanageability comes from today. Understanding it, admitting it, and being aware of it.....means nothing If I don't take actions to change it.
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I don't dilligenlty do a daily 10th step....it has not become an automatic habit....I am more likley to become willing to do it....when i have run into a wall, some pain, or an obstacle with my self or my behavior or others behavior.
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I do however seek "reality" checks from trusted individuals with long term recovery on a daily basis....but I don't write them down on paper as an official 10th step.....and they build up.
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I am an addiholic....I am not only an addict/alcoholic.....
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if you add anything mood altering or mind changing to me.....I want more of it. if it takes me out of my feelings....I seek it.
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and that not only includes drugs or alcohol...it can also include.....sex, shopping, money, academic achievement, ego inflating, the illusion of power and control, people pleasing.....because these things can become obsessive coping skills that "change" my mood and how I feel about myself, and eventually cause unmanageability.
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most of my problems today have nothing to do with alcohol or drugs.....they stem from my approach to life and living, and how i see mself in relation to the world around me.
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I don't know if this has made sense to anyone...........
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but I want to do another 4th step to uncover another layer of what doesn't work. and by doing that.....I can also come to the conclusion of what does and begin to live another chapter of growth in my life.
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We get a daily reprieve based on our spiritual condition.....and I want to do a thorough housecleaning again, and begin to live the progam including a daily 10th step on a new level.
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I have a feeling I will find not only what I still need to work on.....but also become aware of how far I have come.
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either way....more will be revealed...........
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Good topic...thanks for participating.............
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light and love to all
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<img src="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="Very Happy" border="0" />
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Gail</span> <hr />
<b>free2bunme</b> - Thu 12 Jan, 2006 4:51 pm<br />
<b>Post subject: </b><hr width=95% class="sep"/>
<div align="center"><div class="codetitle">Quote:</div><div class="quotediv">The core root of my dysfunction began in Co-dependency. I either felt responsible for the world or a victim of it. for me this is where most of my unmanageability comes from today. Understanding it, admitting it, and being aware of it.....means nothing If I don't take actions to change it. </div></div>
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me too, Clean! I've heard that annual housecleanings help us get more and more willing to let go of the "character defects" that continue to plague us, well into sobriety. i dont see how it can hurt, ya know? <hr />
<b>BB.Bernie</b> - Sat 14 Jan, 2006 7:04 am<br />
<b>Post subject: </b>steps 10, 11,12<hr width=95% class="sep"/>
Hi my name is bernie iam a alcoholic (may 28 2001) is my dry day. Was on a 12 step call tonight boy am i feelingggg GREAT. I come into this AA program thinking that no one was like me. its great to no your not alone. I first did my steps I did throught the 12 & 12 I did them to the Best of my abilty I had a very profound Awakeing ( God comes to most men gradualy but his impact on me was sudden and profound. I was about 7 mth. Dry by the 9 mth iam ready to get drunk! Then my Creator puts in my path a very interesting, man, he attracted me but yet he scared me. He had somthing I wanted, and he new what was wrong with me, this man (my sponcer now) guided me through the steps as laid out in the Frist 164 pages of are big book. we would meet 1 a week, for 10 mts we did this,just him, me and God. We would read a little, then we would share on what was read.He shared his truth and i shared mine Honesty, Openminds. This was what I was missing I found my own truth, in finding my own truth I found God because God is truth. Rarely Have we seen a person Fail who has THOROUGHLY followed our path. When we would meet he often say, that it was doing him more good than me. My knoweldge is Bad for Me, Good for you, your Knoweldge is bad for you, But is good for me. I now guide others as I was. And I have ceased fighting anythink, or anyone, even me. I react sanely and normally, and it just comes! Thats the miracle! of it. I feel as if I have been placed in a position of neutrality - safe and protected. I feel as though The problem has been removed. Iam neither cocky nor nor am I afraid. This is how I react so long as I stay in fit spiritual condition. Each and every night I take a personal inventory,was I selfish, disonest, was I afraid. This is the best step, besides, 11. I thank God very very much for this step. Because as I see Today I may not see tommore. I believe steps 10,11,12 are what keep me spiritualy Fit. They say you can take your spiritual to the level you want. <hr />
<b>Kirstin</b> - Thu 02 Feb, 2006 12:11 pm<br />
<b>Post subject: </b><hr width=95% class="sep"/>
Hello I am new to this group thanks for having it.
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I have a few 24 hours in the program and it is my understanding that if you have done your 4th -9th steps there would be no reason to do them again. What we have given to Our Higher Power in our 6th and 7th step we never take back as we are willing to without reservations clean house and ask God to remove all of these defects of character.
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In the Big Book it tells us we continue to take personal inventory and when wrong promptly admit it. This however is our 10th step, which keeps us from filling that bag of defects back up again, necessitating another 4th thru 9th step. If we have forgotten something in these steps as we surely can not wait until we remember everything before doing these steps, I was taught that we can take inventory on those alone. I hear a lot of sponsors say when they take on a new sponsoree that has done their steps they make them do them again. I feel this again negates the powerfulness and purpose of doing our steps one time with one person and giving it to our Higher Power. That alone is hard enough for us.
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I went and looked in the Big Book to see what it said about Inventories and it affirms what I was taught and how I read the Big Books intent on doing Inventories. Here are the referrences to 'Inventories"
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Thank you for you great questions
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ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS
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Search Results
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Found 14 matches for "inventory".
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Chapter 5. HOW IT WORKS page 59
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Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
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Chapter 5. HOW IT WORKS page 59
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Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
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Chapter 5. HOW IT WORKS page 64
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Therefore, we started upon a personal inventory.
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Chapter 5. HOW IT WORKS page 64
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A business which takes no regular inventory usually goes broke.
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Chapter 5. HOW IT WORKS page 64
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Taking commercial inventory is a fact-finding and a fact-facing process.
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Chapter 5. HOW IT WORKS page 67
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The inventory was ours, not the other man's.
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Chapter 5. HOW IT WORKS page 70
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If we have been thorough about our personal inventory, we have written down a lot.
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Chapter 5. HOW IT WORKS page 71
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If you have already made a decision, and an inventory of your grosser handicaps, you have made a good beginning.
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Chapter 6. INTO ACTION page 72
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Having made our personal inventory, what shall we do about it?
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Chapter 6. INTO ACTION page 72
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We have admitted certain defects; we have ascertained in a rough way what the trouble is; we have put our finger on the weak times in our personal inventory.
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Chapter 6. INTO ACTION page 73
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They took inventory all right, but hung on to some of the worst items in stock.
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Chapter 6. INTO ACTION page 75
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We have a written inventory and we are prepared for a long talk.
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Chapter 6. INTO ACTION page 76
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We made it when we took inventory.
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Chapter 6. INTO ACTION page 84
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This thought brings us to Step Ten , which suggests we continue to take personal inventory and continue to set right any new mistakes as we go along. <hr />
<b>Post subject: </b>working 4th step again.............<hr width=95% class="sep"/>
<span style="color:blue">I was taught that we work the steps in a circular fashion. my sponsor told me that every few years or so we work another 4th and 5th step to stay spiritually fit. for those of you who have done this.....What is the main difference other than the amount of material to put on paper? do we dig deeper? is there another level of understanding that we reach? is the second time around more mature or more enlightening,.......just wondering if some of you could share your experience with this.
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thank you for any and all replies in advance <img src="images/smiles/1.gif" alt="ok" border="0" /> </span> <hr />
<b>Cassie</b> - Fri 06 Jan, 2006 6:41 pm<br />
<b>Post subject: </b><hr width=95% class="sep"/>
I am working on another 4th Step because of all that has happened to me since I did the last one. Not only can I look back and see where I went wrong, I can make a plan so it will be a learning experience and I don't make the same mistake again.
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Hope this helps.
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<img src="images/smiles/46.gif" alt="smile" border="0" /> <img src="images/smiles/45.gif" alt="hug" border="0" /> <img src="images/smiles/20.gif" alt="smile" border="0" /> <hr />
<b>zoomie</b> - Sat 07 Jan, 2006 8:53 am<br />
<b>Post subject: </b><hr width=95% class="sep"/>
Hi, I was told by my sponcer once you are done with the 4th and 5th you are done and the other steps are there for you to maintain your program.
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It is interesting how some do the 4th and 5th again though. Good luck!!! <hr />
<b>Cassie</b> - Sat 07 Jan, 2006 12:27 pm<br />
<b>Post subject: </b><hr width=95% class="sep"/>
<div align="center"><div class="codetitle">zoomie wrote:</div><div class="quotediv">Hi, I was told by my sponcer once you are done with the 4th and 5th you are done and the other steps are there for you to maintain your program.
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It is interesting how some do the 4th and 5th again though. Good luck!!!</div></div>
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Guess I haven't gotten to the 100% success in maintenance yet! <img src="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif" alt="Wink" border="0" /> Ever hopeful thought and grateful. <img src="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="Very Happy" border="0" /> <hr />
<b>zoomie</b> - Sat 07 Jan, 2006 1:58 pm<br />
<b>Post subject: </b><hr width=95% class="sep"/>
LOL me either,but I do try! <hr />
<b>Baritone</b> - Sat 07 Jan, 2006 7:06 pm<br />
<b>Post subject: </b><hr width=95% class="sep"/>
A while ago i was telling someone with a lot of sobriety that i needed to do another fourth step, and was going into detail of my reasoning of what was wrong with my original fourth step, when he broke in with "well of course it wasn't very good, it was your first fourth step". Meaning that when we're new we don't see things all that clearly.
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But i will say that my first fourth step was a load of poop. Not that i was lying or hiding anything, but looking back i was more concerned with writing down what i thought my sponsor wanted to hear, the way he wanted it written, than with an honest look at myself. I've since come to see how people-pleasing, or more specifically fear of what i think people will think of me, was one of my major defects, prompting a whole new look at a 4th step inventory for me.
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- Jim <hr />
<b>fibiray</b> - Sun 08 Jan, 2006 8:26 am<br />
<b>Post subject: </b><hr width=95% class="sep"/>
I think that many of us have to do a second 4th step for the simple reason that our memories are damaged when we first come in and when we are first attempting to do this step. I myself had to do another one as my mind began to clear and certain events began to jolt back into my memory. This is not to say that I deliberately left them out but at the time I did the best I could with what I had. Things seem to unravel in their own time and accord so I deal with them as they arise if need to be. Some people may feel it not necessary to do another one and just include it in their step 10. either way so long as they are getting addressed and dealth with that is all that matters really. Having some time under your belt does help as you are then aware of what you are responsible for and what you are not. Furthermore when other stuff came up later I was well aware of my defects of charcter by then but the event was just a reminder of exactly where my defects had taken me. <hr />
<b>bry</b> - Sun 08 Jan, 2006 9:08 am<br />
<b>Post subject: </b><hr width=95% class="sep"/>
I can only think of a couple of reasons I would do a second fourth step. Myself I relapsed after a number of years sober so I began at step one. The other reason would be if I couldn't continue through steps 5-12 then maybe there's is something wrong with how I'm working my program in general. If I'm practicing step 10 on a consistant basis I have no real need to do another 4th step. I stuggled to get where I am and don't want to go backward anymore. <hr />
<b>Doraine</b> - Sun 08 Jan, 2006 9:35 pm<br />
<b>Post subject: </b><hr width=95% class="sep"/>
I worked a second 4th step recently after being sober 18 years. A lot happened between my first 4th and my second 4th step. It was different than my first. I did it to make sure I was on track. I went a few years without going to meetings. I stayed sober but wasn't working a 12 step program. <hr />
<b>Paul T</b> - Wed 11 Jan, 2006 6:16 am<br />
<b>Post subject: </b><hr width=95% class="sep"/>
I never understood people who said they did the steps on a yearly basis. Surely we do steps 1 to 9, and live in 10 to 12?
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Then I did another set of steps. Wow! Talk about a new experience and a new understanding! I am now one of those who do the steps on a yearly basis.
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Specifically on a step 4, there is a deeper/different understanding when doing it again. As suggested above, memory improves for one thing, but other things that my early sobriety thought was not an issue were in fact an issue. Not much was replicated but a lot of stuff was still there. Defintiely worth doing more than once (in my opinion).
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When I sponsor someone I go through the steps with them anyway, so I'm not sure how someone can only do it once. My idea of sponsoring is to share the experience, not tell someone what to do. So I also have that chance to have a new experience, a new understanding and a deeper spiritual experience with sponsees.
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One last thing if I may. When you are at meetings or a conference, find out who has done the steps more than once and who hasn't. See if there is a difference in how they think, act and talk. I was genuinly surprised that all those who I admired and all those who had something I aimed for had done the steps multiple times. Those who had done it once were well and sober but did not have the presence and inner peace I saw in others.
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Remember: good is the enemy of the best.
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Obviously, this is my own experience and my own thoughts. Others have their own which are just as valid in their sobriety. <hr />
<b>Cassie</b> - Wed 11 Jan, 2006 7:34 am<br />
<b>Post subject: </b><hr width=95% class="sep"/>
<img src="images/smiles/goodpoint.gif" alt="good point" border="0" />
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Well said Paul T. Thanks. <hr />
<b>zoomie</b> - Wed 11 Jan, 2006 8:36 am<br />
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Not to argue,but pointing fingers and making statments such as you just did and judging people's program,is not a very healthy AA thing to do.
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My sponcer is a well loved man,he is dying with only doing one step 4. He has the admeration and love from all in our group. He is a quiet man that gave his service to others with out any need for thanks. He had been a GSR for our group and secretary for almost 3 years and made coffee on top of it all. He had many sponcees. Some never got sober and some did,but not once did anyone call him bossy. I guess it's all where you live and what your group thinks. Our group thinks it's fine to do only one step four and five and live the rest of the program day to day.
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We have several hundred memebers. I think Cassie just wanted to know was there a differnce. I do not think there is a difference so much as each person or group does the program in his or her own way. I feel that if I do steps 10,11, and 12 each day that I would have no need for another 4th and 5th. My past is over,nor do I regret it or wish to shut the door on it. We all use our ESH to help the new commer. It's not quantity,it's quality. I think I did a great job on my 4th and 5th and was very honest. I had done another 4th step before I relapsed,therefore I was starting new again,so I did everything all over. So I feel if you relapsed then you should do another 4th and 5th,but if your sober your sober no matter how many 4th and 5ths you do. <hr />
<b>bluidkiti</b> - Wed 11 Jan, 2006 10:24 am<br />
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I have done a couple of 4th and 5th steps. When I relapsed and I had also gotten another sponsor (which is also the sponsor I have now) I did another 4th and 5th step with her. She brought up the subject of doing a 4th step and I said to her I had already done one with another sponsor before. She said well, you haven't done one with me. As I said, I had relapsed and then I got her as my sponsor when I came back. So I did the 4th step and did the 5th step with her. She said I did a great job. I feel the 4th step I did with her was more thorough than the first one I did with my first sponsor. She hasn't asked me to do another 4th step though I did sort of do another mini 4th step with her several months later on something else that came up.
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I like what I heard this one old timer say in a meeting once - "what works to keep me sober just might get you drunk." I also like to each his own. So to each his own. Whatever works, do it. <img src="images/smiles/1.gif" alt="ok" border="0" /> <hr />
<b>Carol87</b> - Wed 11 Jan, 2006 10:39 am<br />
<b>Post subject: </b><hr width=95% class="sep"/>
Oh My! <img src="images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt="Rolling Eyes" border="0" /> It only took me three years to do my 4th step ... was it thorough? <img src="images/smiles/icon_confused.gif" alt="Confused" border="0" /> As thorough as I could do at the time. No, I haven't done a COMPLETE 4th and 5th again; however, on many occasions I have done a 'mini' 4th and 5th on specific issues. Plus - since doing my one and only complete 4th, I have discussed many of the issues that were not thoroughly covered the first time with my sponsor. That worked for ME. <img src="images/smiles/17.gif" alt="nod" border="0" />
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I agree with Tammy ... do what is RIGHT FOR YOU ... <img src="images/smiles/tothineownself.jpg" alt="to thine own self" border="0" /> <hr />
<b>vlrknicks</b> - Wed 11 Jan, 2006 11:52 am<br />
<b>Post subject: </b><hr width=95% class="sep"/>
I have done several 4th Steps in my sobriety. In my 10th year my sponsor suggested I do an inventory on an issue which continued to trouble me - insecurity in relationships. My copdependency was so rampant in my life. I lived in fear of rejection, abandonment. Doing this 4th Step gave me the clarity about my part and struggles. Learning to admit my controlling behavior made huge difference in all my relationships. Done 4th Steps with finances, sexual issues that continued to be a problem for me in recovery. By doing a 4th step on a specific area that caused me pain can offer hope. And hope, I have learned is what fosters willingness to change. My sponsor pointed out to me that it's very unlikely you will change a behavior until you have seen how clearly this behavior has disrupted your serenity. My opinion only - Stepwork requires acceptance which I believe is the key to the 4th Step. I accept that any effort I make will be imperfect. I accept that this is okay. I accept that looking at the past is necessary if I want to find serenity in the present. And that changing any aspect of the present can come only after I have understood the past. I accept that life is a process and tomorrow will offer us another opportunity to learn and grow. I do not have to do a 4th Step alone ever...I found serenity in the knowledge that I am not on this path by accident, but clearly by design. I have been graced by my loving God, who is at my side every STEP I take.
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Peace Vic <img src="images/smiles/46.gif" alt="smile" border="0" /> <hr />
<b>Clean42day</b> - Thu 12 Jan, 2006 4:37 pm<br />
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<span style="color:blue">Wow thanks to all of you for your input....
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I was taught that alcoholism and addiction are but symptoms of deeper underlying issues that make us maladjusted to life.
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after pealing away layers my first 4th and 5th revealed some prety disturbing and dysfunctional belief systems.
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The core root of my dysfunction began in Co-dependency. I either felt responsible for the world or a victim of it. for me this is where most of my unmanageability comes from today. Understanding it, admitting it, and being aware of it.....means nothing If I don't take actions to change it.
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I don't dilligenlty do a daily 10th step....it has not become an automatic habit....I am more likley to become willing to do it....when i have run into a wall, some pain, or an obstacle with my self or my behavior or others behavior.
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I do however seek "reality" checks from trusted individuals with long term recovery on a daily basis....but I don't write them down on paper as an official 10th step.....and they build up.
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I am an addiholic....I am not only an addict/alcoholic.....
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if you add anything mood altering or mind changing to me.....I want more of it. if it takes me out of my feelings....I seek it.
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and that not only includes drugs or alcohol...it can also include.....sex, shopping, money, academic achievement, ego inflating, the illusion of power and control, people pleasing.....because these things can become obsessive coping skills that "change" my mood and how I feel about myself, and eventually cause unmanageability.
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most of my problems today have nothing to do with alcohol or drugs.....they stem from my approach to life and living, and how i see mself in relation to the world around me.
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I don't know if this has made sense to anyone...........
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but I want to do another 4th step to uncover another layer of what doesn't work. and by doing that.....I can also come to the conclusion of what does and begin to live another chapter of growth in my life.
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We get a daily reprieve based on our spiritual condition.....and I want to do a thorough housecleaning again, and begin to live the progam including a daily 10th step on a new level.
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I have a feeling I will find not only what I still need to work on.....but also become aware of how far I have come.
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either way....more will be revealed...........
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Good topic...thanks for participating.............
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light and love to all
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<img src="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif" alt="Very Happy" border="0" />
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Gail</span> <hr />
<b>free2bunme</b> - Thu 12 Jan, 2006 4:51 pm<br />
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<div align="center"><div class="codetitle">Quote:</div><div class="quotediv">The core root of my dysfunction began in Co-dependency. I either felt responsible for the world or a victim of it. for me this is where most of my unmanageability comes from today. Understanding it, admitting it, and being aware of it.....means nothing If I don't take actions to change it. </div></div>
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me too, Clean! I've heard that annual housecleanings help us get more and more willing to let go of the "character defects" that continue to plague us, well into sobriety. i dont see how it can hurt, ya know? <hr />
<b>BB.Bernie</b> - Sat 14 Jan, 2006 7:04 am<br />
<b>Post subject: </b>steps 10, 11,12<hr width=95% class="sep"/>
Hi my name is bernie iam a alcoholic (may 28 2001) is my dry day. Was on a 12 step call tonight boy am i feelingggg GREAT. I come into this AA program thinking that no one was like me. its great to no your not alone. I first did my steps I did throught the 12 & 12 I did them to the Best of my abilty I had a very profound Awakeing ( God comes to most men gradualy but his impact on me was sudden and profound. I was about 7 mth. Dry by the 9 mth iam ready to get drunk! Then my Creator puts in my path a very interesting, man, he attracted me but yet he scared me. He had somthing I wanted, and he new what was wrong with me, this man (my sponcer now) guided me through the steps as laid out in the Frist 164 pages of are big book. we would meet 1 a week, for 10 mts we did this,just him, me and God. We would read a little, then we would share on what was read.He shared his truth and i shared mine Honesty, Openminds. This was what I was missing I found my own truth, in finding my own truth I found God because God is truth. Rarely Have we seen a person Fail who has THOROUGHLY followed our path. When we would meet he often say, that it was doing him more good than me. My knoweldge is Bad for Me, Good for you, your Knoweldge is bad for you, But is good for me. I now guide others as I was. And I have ceased fighting anythink, or anyone, even me. I react sanely and normally, and it just comes! Thats the miracle! of it. I feel as if I have been placed in a position of neutrality - safe and protected. I feel as though The problem has been removed. Iam neither cocky nor nor am I afraid. This is how I react so long as I stay in fit spiritual condition. Each and every night I take a personal inventory,was I selfish, disonest, was I afraid. This is the best step, besides, 11. I thank God very very much for this step. Because as I see Today I may not see tommore. I believe steps 10,11,12 are what keep me spiritualy Fit. They say you can take your spiritual to the level you want. <hr />
<b>Kirstin</b> - Thu 02 Feb, 2006 12:11 pm<br />
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Hello I am new to this group thanks for having it.
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I have a few 24 hours in the program and it is my understanding that if you have done your 4th -9th steps there would be no reason to do them again. What we have given to Our Higher Power in our 6th and 7th step we never take back as we are willing to without reservations clean house and ask God to remove all of these defects of character.
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In the Big Book it tells us we continue to take personal inventory and when wrong promptly admit it. This however is our 10th step, which keeps us from filling that bag of defects back up again, necessitating another 4th thru 9th step. If we have forgotten something in these steps as we surely can not wait until we remember everything before doing these steps, I was taught that we can take inventory on those alone. I hear a lot of sponsors say when they take on a new sponsoree that has done their steps they make them do them again. I feel this again negates the powerfulness and purpose of doing our steps one time with one person and giving it to our Higher Power. That alone is hard enough for us.
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I went and looked in the Big Book to see what it said about Inventories and it affirms what I was taught and how I read the Big Books intent on doing Inventories. Here are the referrences to 'Inventories"
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Thank you for you great questions
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ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS
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Search Results
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Found 14 matches for "inventory".
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Chapter 5. HOW IT WORKS page 59
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Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
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Chapter 5. HOW IT WORKS page 59
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Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
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Chapter 5. HOW IT WORKS page 64
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Therefore, we started upon a personal inventory.
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Chapter 5. HOW IT WORKS page 64
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A business which takes no regular inventory usually goes broke.
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Chapter 5. HOW IT WORKS page 64
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Taking commercial inventory is a fact-finding and a fact-facing process.
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Chapter 5. HOW IT WORKS page 67
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The inventory was ours, not the other man's.
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Chapter 5. HOW IT WORKS page 70
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If we have been thorough about our personal inventory, we have written down a lot.
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Chapter 5. HOW IT WORKS page 71
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If you have already made a decision, and an inventory of your grosser handicaps, you have made a good beginning.
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Chapter 6. INTO ACTION page 72
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Having made our personal inventory, what shall we do about it?
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Chapter 6. INTO ACTION page 72
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We have admitted certain defects; we have ascertained in a rough way what the trouble is; we have put our finger on the weak times in our personal inventory.
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Chapter 6. INTO ACTION page 73
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They took inventory all right, but hung on to some of the worst items in stock.
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Chapter 6. INTO ACTION page 75
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We have a written inventory and we are prepared for a long talk.
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Chapter 6. INTO ACTION page 76
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We made it when we took inventory.
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Chapter 6. INTO ACTION page 84
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This thought brings us to Step Ten , which suggests we continue to take personal inventory and continue to set right any new mistakes as we go along. <hr />