Weekly Meeting 4/8-4/14 guilt and shame

[zoomie]

I'v been thinking about a topic all week and what to come up with. I'v been sober 3 and a half years and been through my 4th and 5th step. Recently however I have found myself feeling guilt and shame about my past behaviors. I feel somehow I could have prevented my behavior,but chose to drink anyway and for that I feel shame. I was not the mother I thought I was for I drank. My older kids did not have a good role model. Just recently I have been talking to two of my older kids about my behavior and made some amends to them. I am however making living amends by being sober and doing the next sober thing. Thats all I can do,but I still feel some guilt and shame creep in and it's so uncomfortable. The reason I state that I could have prevented my behaviors is because I knew all the risk involved when I drank because of being in treatment and AA before. I chose not to believe I was an alcoholic or the alcoholism got to me into thinking i was not so I could drink again. It's all so cunning! My topic is how do you work through guilt and shame knowing that you have cause real damage and can never fix it.

[thereishope]

Hello zoomie
Good topic!! I have been clean 4yrs 7mon 7days (aug,31,2003).I also had the same issue after my 4th and 5th step and i could not figure out what was wrong and the it came to me...I did not really forgive myself so it left me feeling just awful. GOD forgave me when i accepted JESUS CHRIST so i took a big leap of faith and said GOD i really need your help with this one because how can i forgive myself for the things i had done (and boy they were doozies!!!) how is it that i can have that right? All i heard was yes i will help you, and love you and if I can forgive you for all that you have done and i am GOD why cant you give it a try? It was very loving and GOD and i worked on that for a while and just by allowing him to work in me, reading HIS word and believeing what HE says it has gotten so much better.
There are times still when a few people in my life like to just heap everything i ever did at me and my mind still sometimes will go in that direction and yes of course it still hurts but then i have to fight it with the word of GOD cause its the only thing that helps me and when it does happen i repeat over in my head a few times
ROMANS 8:1 For there is now no condemnation for those who are in CHRIST JESUS........
I have to say it a few times and then i just start thanking HIM and praising HIM for everything HE has healed me of and everything HE has brought me through. Amazingly i begin to feel alot better and all the pain and remorse i had been feeling at that time just seems to slip away.
I too also made amends with my 12yr old (my youngest dont remember me like that) and now he deffends me when anybody says things about me when it pertains to my past drug and alchol abuse. That is an awsome feeling and i see he loves me just the same if not more because i was totally honest with him. I began using and drinking at the age of 12 but at 21 i found meth and was screwed up on that for 10yrs and i didnt get clean till i was 31. Every time i picked up a drink i would drink to oblivian and before i picked it up i knew what was gonna happen but i still did it.....and every time i picked up a meth pipe or did a line i knew what was gonna happen but i still picked it up, so i understand and know why you feel that way(I did too) But thats why its a disease, cunning, baffeling and powerful ohhhh so powerful. Thats why we have our medication for our desease, steps, meetings, our higher power and the loving family of recovery. As i sit here today i am very grateful and thankful. And as others come into my life and and i am able too look back with no shame to be able to help to pick another up and say its gonna be ok, we can work through it together and i am able too help through GODS grace and MERCY.
I thank you for your topic and i pray that something of my own story can help you too.
I pray you have a blessed day
I wish you much love and many blessings on your journey of recovery and discovery
Your friend corey

[admin]

For me I have had to pray to God for help. I have had to learn to love myself - warts and all and to forgive myself. As for what I have done to others - where I am able I have made amends. If I am not able to make direct amends then I have made amends indirectly. With my immediate family making amends has been staying sober one day at a time and working on changing for the better. I didn't get the way I was overnight so change takes time as well as healing. :42:

[Coffeebeing]

An interesting topic. As far as alcohol is concerned, unless I have the spiritual awakening and complete change that working the steps help to provide, I am insane. This is detailed in the Big Book.

Insane is not a conscious choice, insane is not a logical choice, insane is not a state of mind that cares about outcome, consequence or responsibility. As I get a little more sanity in the other parts of my life and I don't drink, I begin to feel a little shame and guilt for what I have done while drinking (and not drinking for that matter).

I need to realize that I could NOT prevent my behaviors.

The Big Book says in the famous, "How It Works”:

Our description of the alcoholic, the chapter to the agnostic, and our personal adventures before and after make clear three pertinent ideas:

(a) That we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives.

(b) That probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism.

(c) That God could and would if He were sought

This excerpt is representative of the fact that I could not stay sober in the long run, I could not control my insane thinking.

When I began to understand this fully, I also developed Hope that I could get help from a Power Greater than Myself. I also truly began to accept that I was INSANE concerning alcohol. I could not make reasonable choices concerning alcohol. I was not responsible about anything concerning alcohol.

I was still accountable but that accountability had nothing to do with shame or guilt and everything to do with not drinking and beginning to clean up and repair anything I could that I damaged in my life. In some cases I can't repair it. I leave that in God's hands. He has a plan for ALL and is far wiser than I in what should be done in those cases. Sometimes a "little still voice" tells me to do something that has nothing to do with any direct amends, sometimes God works with the wreckage to create a masterpiece for someone else.

When shame or guilt does creep up I somehow have lost focus on the fact that I was insane concerning alcohol and a little bit of me begins to believe I had some power over this thing. I didn't. I pray for the relief of any emotions or feelings that interfere with my recovery or to learn the lessons these thoughts and feelings are truly giving.

I do more work helping others when these feelings come; I take a look at the Big Book and the steps again when these feelings come. I share this stuff immediately with my sponsor and in the rooms. Working ALL the steps will lead to Sanity. The Promises state:

If we are painstaking about this phase of our development, we will be amazed before we are half way through.

We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness.

We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it.

We will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace.

No matter how far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others.

That feeling of uselessness and self-pity will disappear.

We will lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows.

Self-seeking will slip away.

Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change.

Fear of people and of economic insecurity will leave us.

We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us.

We will suddenly realize that God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves.



Are these extravagant promises? We think not.

They are being fulfilled among us - sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly.

They will always materialize if we work for them.


Blessings.....George






I'v been thinking about a topic all week and what to come up with. I'v been sober 3 and a half years and been through my 4th and 5th step. Recently however I have found myself feeling guilt and shame about my past behaviors. I feel somehow I could have prevented my behavior,but chose to drink anyway and for that I feel shame. I was not the mother I thought I was for I drank. My older kids did not have a good role model. Just recently I have been talking to two of my older kids about my behavior and made some amends to them. I am however making living amends by being sober and doing the next sober thing. Thats all I can do,but I still feel some guilt and shame creep in and it's so uncomfortable. The reason I state that I could have prevented my behaviors is because I knew all the risk involved when I drank because of being in treatment and AA before. I chose not to believe I was an alcoholic or the alcoholism got to me into thinking i was not so I could drink again. It's all so cunning! My topic is how do you work through guilt and shame knowing that you have cause real damage and can never fix it.

[zoomie]

I was and did do the steps in order and work the steps everyday. It's just now or in the recent past that I have become more aware of my wrong doings. Alass I'm not so sure if I beleve in a higher power. I was just able to make amends to my 17 year old daughter. We talked about things and I told her that I was wrong in some of the things I did. It made me feel a bit better. I suffer from bi-polar and did some wacked things while manic. Only medication can releave me of the symtoms,not God. You can say God in a way had lead me to the doctors that can help heal my symtoms. I do however beleave that AA can help me live a more useful life free from drinking. I think I do work a good program or at least try to. Progress not perfection as they say. In my years being sober though I never felt such guilt and shame. I know I'm not the person I was,but I have a hard time with the sickness concept of it all. Is it healthy to feel guilt and shame to motivate us to do better?

[barbie25]

Zommie ia m not sure if feeling guilt or shame is motivation for anyone. I know for me if I feel that way I get depressed and want to curl up in a little ball. I find if I deal with whatever is gong on with me right away i feel tons better. Do I ever feel as insanity is slipping back in. Heck Yeah. So i call someone i read something or i write. then i feel alot better.we are not perfect. we are all on a raod of progress not perfection. don't give up on the higher power i think (because we are human) we all feel and think that way. thanks for the topic.:42:

[Montauktammy]

Cunning baffling insidious and powerful
How could I explain it my dis-ease with my self and others. I have work my 4th and 5th twice and now on my 4th again Ill keep doing it till I can't do it any more or I am dead I have a friend that say if you have a concern in your life and you don't like the way that you feel STEP ON IT

[snugsnug]

From when I picked up that white key-tag I was no longer responsible for my addiction, only my recovery. I have made it a priority to deal with and work on my guilt and shame, and it is working. Guilt is a feeling of responsibility or remorse for some offense, crime, wrong, etc., whether real or imagined. I no longer feel that way about the things I did in active addiction. And Shame is the painful feeling arising from the consciousness of something dishonorable, improper, ridiculous, etc., done by oneself or another. I may at times be sorry for the damage I caused, but in no way is it GUILT or SHAME. Two powerful words! Good topic

[clean42day]

Good topic Zoomie and one I struggled with for a very long time - as a matter of fact my own guilt and shame kept me thinking that I was unworthy of recovery for ummmmmm let's see - 14 YEARS! Yeah I was introduced to the program when I was 26 years old and still couldn't "get it" till I fully surrendered at the age of 41...................

thank God for God's grace and mercy because if I were to hold myself responsible and judge what "I THOUGHT" was justice and fairness - I would not be here right now - I would have inialiated myself and judged everyone else unworthy of recovery too.

GUILT AND SHAME ARE NOTHING MORE THAN A PROCESS OF SELF-PUNISHMENT! WHICH IS THE OPPOSITE OF -SELF-ACCEPTANCE.

Self forgiveness is a process - not an event - and from my own experience it comes in layers of spiritual growth that leads to
- self acceptance.

For me what helped me to learn to forgive myself was to first understand that from physical standpoint I have a disease that does not tell me the truth. (allergy of the body and obsession of the mind) It wants me sick and dilusional so it can keep it's Little self alive...and that would include the one characteristic we have common = DENIAL - plus my disease loves to beat me up with guilt and shame to keep me from moving forward - because "IT" does not want to get left behind.

How do I know this? and how have I proved it to myself? -because (symptoms) -the drinking and drugging is NOT what makes me an alcoholic/addict - I can be just as "sick" without chemicals in my life. I have an abnormal body that is allergic to mind altering chemicals and an abnormal mind that tells me I am not allergic and that I am not sick- Go figure?

Plus the BB talks about the spiritual malady - and that is what the steps address and help us to heal from. the seperation from "source".

We are not BAD people trying to get GOOD - we are sick people trying to get well.

and from my own expereience - the steps are to be worked in a circular fashion - they are not events either - they are also a layered process of personal and spiritual growth that continues till the day we die.

there were things in my own first 4th step that I will never have to go back over - because I understood why I did what I did, and I came to a place of forgiveness for myself - and I fully let those things go and there are things that still pop up from time to time to try and remind me of what a "BAAAAADDDD" person I was. Guess what? If I would have had the ability to do better - I would have done better - but I didn't = period.

When people are in the throws of active addiction and alcoholism - they DO NOT HAVE THE POWER TO CHOOSE GOODE BEHAVIOR. the power has to come from somewhere else.

I also have to seperate the behavior from the person - just like I do - when I deal with clients - I also have to do the same for myself.

Would I hold a cancer patient responsible for developing cancer? Would I hold someone responsible for being allergic to strawberries? = NO I would not continually judge them because they have diseases. They did not "choose" to be sick.

guilt is nothing more than a reminder of a mistake for transgressions.....

Guilt says - "I made a mistake"
shame says - "I am a mistake"

Healthy guilt says "I made a mistake and learned from it, and I will try to do better next time'. the key word being "TRY" and all that requires is a desire and some willingness to - go through the process of growth.

Toxic shame and guilt - is like giving your disease permission to plant your feet in concreate and hold yourself back to continually punish yourself to all those "times" in your life where you were incapable of doing better.

Today I choose not to give my disease permission to do that to me anymore.I still feel guilt and shame from time to time - but as many times as it takes - I will also forgive myself as God has already forgiven me with grace and mercy and as long as I am "living the program" to the best of my ability?????

Today I am moving forward.

I have found that If I continually judge myself from a moral and intellectual point of view - I will always "fall short" of my ideals and socieities standards. but when I veiw myself from a "spiritual" level of awareness - I come to a place of acceptance that tells me "I am a work in progress and a spiritual being haveing a human experience".

as snugsnug said:
From when I picked up that white key-tag I was no longer responsible for my addiction, only my recovery.

Part of that responsibility is recognizing that everytime guilt and shame present themselves - it is an opportunity to Heal another layer - rather than condem myself for re-feeling it.


here is a little article on accepting ourselves and others that might help on this topic:

http://www.holisticharmony.com/ezines/accselfother.asp



light and love

Gail

[zoomie]

Wow some powerful shares! Today I went to a meeting and it was on letting go. It was something I needed to hear. Like I said before I did't feel too much guilt and shame when I first came in, it's only been this year that I have felt remorseful. At anyrate, I'm in the process of letting go of the guilt and shame and your shares help. Thanks for replying to the topic. Lots of really good things have been said by all of you!

[kaistevens]

I have had to learn to treat myself as if I were my daughter.
If she had done these things I have done, and she had hurt me in the
ways I have hurt her, how would I feel about her? What would I tell
her? Would I forgive her? love her? be supportive of her?
Yes, I would. So, I do that with myself.

As a matter of fact, my HP is like a parent, and loves me in the way
I love my children, and that is what has worked for me.