brainwashing

[kessa]

guys you have all been super nice. But when i asked 1 question about going into rehab, all i got was your (slogans) one day at a time , keep coming back, it works if you work it, you all sound like drones, does anyone dispence real advice, and not these slogans? It seems like a cult to me and you all have the same slogans bounsing around in your head. How muck coolaide did yall drink? I know you are going to say well we say those things bacause it works. Did you know there is a 5% succses rate whith 12 step programs? I asked one qiestion and aked for real advice and no slogans, not one of gave adcice without a slogan. Is it possible that yall traded your addiction to drugs to an addiction to na? I am not trying to pick a fight, i just think this is good for discussion. To follow the footsteps o 2 docters in the 1930s. yall are treating the guys like thier gods, an speaking of gods, its offence to have only crihston snilirys. there are oeople of other faiths.
0

[alcoholrehabcoach]

...how do i live without my precious pills. Its as if i am defined as a human by them, i have been on them for so many years. I need real answers. Thank you:21::21:

Kessa,


If you like, start a new thread in the "Ask Mike" section and I will help you get your questions answered. The first thing you will need to tell me is what pills you are taking, and what you are taking them for.

Mike Highstead

[nicknoo]

Hi Kessa,I understand your fear of coming off your pills,i flet the smae way with my own script,i was absoultly fear riddled of living life with out it,i simply couldnt see how it could be done,not just the physical side of it,but the emtional crutch it gave me,which of course i kinda new anyway but didnt really want to admit how deeply i was dependant on these drugs i was,i truly believed that i would die if i stopped.Kessa,no one can really answer your question in the sense,that it will be your path,others can only give there experiance of how they did it,and many have before and will after you.The 12 steps will give you the answers to you questions.So until i actually did noone could help as such except to say to me ..it will be ok..then when i was actually detoxing,its then i was able to reach out and ask for support and experiance.I had to grab my silver balls and do it,cos i knew i wasnt really living.Good luck.you will be given all that you need to get through it all and through it all you will find yourself,as we all did.nicci

[francie21805]

:42:Good Morning Kessa, I’m so glad you’re still here and sharing with us!!

Yea, at first I thought of the possibility of these happy, smiling, slogan slinging, people made me think “cult”. But, I was desperate!!! These people did not give me advice; they shared their experience, their strength, and their hope with me. “What it was like, what happened to change them and how they stayed sober one day at time”. (whoops) :smile: What I did was take some of what they shared as advise. (I did what they did). It's all about staying sober, finding a God of my understanding, and trying to help others. Most don’t have opinions on other issues. “My primary purpose is to stay sober and to help the next suffering person if I can.

I hope you will continue to come back and share with us, we need you and we truly care about you and your recovery.

:42:'s

[Faith92208]

Hi Kessa,

It's good to question things. I'm telling you that I'm only 16 days sober, but it really is easier to think of just that particular day, slogans aside. If I think about tomorrow, I'm going to worry about tomorrow. If I regret the past, I will punish myself over and over. If I think about TODAY, and only staying sober for today, that is a much manageable chunk of time. Go through the withdrawals today. Talk to a friend today. Do the things that make you well today. Regardless if you are in AA or not, today is still the only day you truly have. Because when you focus on today, you look back and realize wow, I was able to get through a week of "todays" and then two weeks of "todays" and eventually you have years of "todays" under your belt. That's where I hope to be, anyway.

When I first went sober in 2006, I hit rock bottom and gave it over to God. Only problem is that I took it back from Him this past year. So, I'm giving it back. (And I actually wasn't in AA in 06, I just realized on my own that I needed Him to get me through it.)

I hope you do keep coming back. You deserve to be well, regardless of what treatment you decide to choose.

Hugs! :42:

[sioux]

For me, an alcoholic, AA is a way of life that I adopted. I did it because I was out of ideas and places to go. They weren't asking me to "keep coming back" anywhere else on this earth; it was more like "get the hell out of here and don't come back now ya hear!"

At first I was convinced of nothing. But then I realized I had gone 90 days without a drink. It wasn't becoming easier--it was getting harder. And so my arrogance grew with a little sobriety under my belt. I have no idea why I didn't get drunk. Well, actually I do, but you may not really want to know the why's.

My experience is that I did not have any answers. These people were not only getting sober, they were staying that way. A vast difference.

I adopted this AA lifestyle because it in fact has kept me sober too. I do it not just because I fear getting drunk, but I fear returning to a life where I was unwanted and unwelcomed. It was too hard being the old me -- the one that had it all figured out and was going to tell you how to do it while I was wiping the puke off my shirt.

[gettinfree]

Hey kessa...I love your spunk!...Glad your still with us. Yea, sometimes I wonder what newcomers think about the smily faces and slogans...But...we're for real here. Inside and Outside of these forums, we're sponsored by members and we sponsor those we can help with or experience in recovery. Trust me... when I sit or talk to my sponsor, we're anot exchanging slogans and smily faces. We get down to what works for us and how to Live without drugs or alcohol. I really don't no about statictics, but I know in my little town there are probably around 20-30 AA or NA meetings a week. I'm not trying to defend our program...This is what has worked for me...We all want you to succeed in you journey tward recovery...We Love You...Come Back...Your Friend In Recovery...Mike

[admin]

Hey Kessa, Well when I saw the topic brainwashing I have to say that my first thought was man when I first came to AA my brain sure did need a good washing. I have to tell ya when I first came seeking help I was all messed up and didn't know one end from the other much less anything about living life without a drink or drug. To me the slogans helped me to keep it simple and hearing them repeated over and over they began to stick on my brain. As time went on and I kept listening other stuff started sticking also. Now in AA it says Three—The only requirement for A.A. membership is a desire to stop drinking and in NA it says Three - "The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop using." All you got to have is a desire to stop drinking or using to be a member of either one.

its offence to have only crihston snilirys

Now I am not 100% sure what that is but I am going to guess at it. I do want to let you know that everybody is welcome here regardless of their beliefs or not beliefs and that includes Christians and all others. So Far no one has been told they can't say who their higher power is or isn't on this site. We all respect each others choice of recovery, choice of beliefs.

Now I missed your question:
...how do i live without my precious pills.

for that I do apologize.

I'll share with you my experience, strength and hope. One of the things I was told was that if I wanted to stop drinking was to put the plug in the jug. Now if these are prescribed pills you are talking about then I suggest you talking to your doctor about that. Either way talking to your doctor is a great idea because I am not a doctor so I tend to try not to give out medical advice. I went to see my doctor when I stopped drinking and let them know what was going on and also got a physical done to see how my health was after all the years of abuse. I also sought help from anywhere I could get it that including AA, Online Recovery, Church just to name a few. I was as desperate as a dying person trying to save my life. Now God and AA is what worked to get me sober and keep me sober and it continues to work today. But what works for one may not work for another. I am very aware there are other ways out in the world to establish sobriety. To each his own and to thine own self be true.

This site was founded on the desire to help others from all walks of life and that is what we try to do here. Thank you for bringing to our attention the things you have. We all need to check ourselves every now and then so we don't get complacent.

Speaking for myself and I feel for others we do care about you and what happens to you. The things I did to get help was:
pray
Reach out to others for help
Call AA Hotline
Go to AA meetings
Get a sponsor
work the steps
Go to church
Go to my doctor

This worked for me. I do hope you will continue to come and share with us here. We are here for you. We do care about you. You are not alone anymore. :42:

[zoomie]

Hi, your post had me laughing. It had me laughing because I use to laugh at the people and the sayings in AA. I don't laugh so much any more because I'm use to the slogans and people. I have a hard time talking AA although I'm getting better at it. I use to just speak my mind and get people pissed off at meetings,but now I just think of what people want to hear and say it so I can fit in. I do want to fit in with the misfits because my whole life I never fit in anyplace. O I had friends that I would drink with,but they would drop me after my behavior became strange. It takes a lot of courage for some of these people to put down that drink or drug and turn their life around. I respect them for that now days. I'm not much of a Christian except at Christmas,but I like way Christians behave and how they seem to enjoy life. It's all about respecting people and respecting yourself when you want to get clean and sober. I have 4 years and I could not have do it without the help of people in AA, meetings or people on boards like this one. I'm in contact with someone sober everyday when I reach out on my key board. If you want to get sober do as the romans do. It's not such a bad way of life alls they ask of you is tobe honest for the most part. In tough times the slogans do come in handy when you can't think of nothing els but a drink or a pill. I'm glad to fit in nowdays and I can still laugh at my counter parts. Not in a mean way,but in a loving way and glad that they are a part of my sober life.

[tonyb]

Hi kessa Tony here again, I know where you are coming from, slogans ,cliches they get right on my nerves.I do not believe in god but if someone does good luck to them.Put the slogans to one side, translate them into a different style of language if needs be. The fact of the matter is the fellowship gives you strength because it is a group of people with the same problem sharing thier experiences listen to them. Whether alcohol, heroin, crack, prescription drugs the results are the same for us all.Have you ever tried to explain addiction to a non addict? You may as well be speaking martian.Ask them to understand where you are at, no hope, even with the best will in the world no one can help us but eachother, so if someone needs to spout all these cliches it doesnt really matter,the fact some people need god,not my thing, that is what they need and who are we to remove what they need in thier recovery.They also need you, you also need them we need each other.Take what you need and leave the rest is another cliche I got from treatment that works.There is no cult here, just a group of addicts desperate to recover any which way they can and the 12 step program has to be worth a go we do have a choice here,get recovery or pick up.I'm choosing recovery, yes I am doing the steps well trying,yes I have got a sponsor(had)he is 11000km away since I came out of treatment,I do say the serenity prayer in the morning for me it makes sense.Please try the program wholeheartedly and you will find that its not just a load of happy clappy nutters shouting along to the tune of someone like jimmy swaggart I think and hope you will be pleasantly surprised I was.Good luck from a reformed cynic

[kessa]

WOW, I realy thought i would get kicked off the board after writing that. First and foremost, that was nothing against any of you, I was questioning the program itself, I think its wonderful for alot of people. 2nd I am about to go to a rehab that is 12 step based and i will learn everything i can my hands on, and do what they ask of me to try to get myself well, it is a little disheartning that i cannot find any other options(just in case) o.k here goes guys, I am about to spew out a slogan, i need right now to let go and see how it goes, that was half a slogan. I am scared, terrified might be the better word, but if yall can put up with me after that post and still write nice things to me, i am thinking maybe the support groups are what i need when i get out. when i am well i can tell new comers hey i was there and i know how you feel, i bet as stubburn as i am i will leave the slogans aside, oh god yall must have snuck into my house last night and made me drink some of the coolaide while i was asleep!! LOL, Its the people here that have won me over, not the slogans. good luck to you all, I was just really scared, and i think i may be able to diagree on a few points if most of the people in n/a are as supportive as you are!

[annalittlebit]

You Are in a really good place with the people here----You will find the same in rehab--- Once I got over the shell shock of going into rehab, I was amazed at how safe I felt there-----I hate to hit you with a slogan but---You Are Truly Not Alone----We've all been where you are and I wish you Much Success on your Journey-----It's a trip worth taking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[nicknoo]

Big big hugs to you girl....when im scared its always coupled with anger..i also get very expressive when im scared,but thank god the peeps still stuck around to see me through,they understood me..as we do you.hugs nicci:42:

[admin]

((((Kessa)))), You are not alone. I cussed like a sailor and then some when I first came to AA. I didn't want to hear anything about God. I was rowdy and full of resentment, hurt and pain. I was also scared. People who know me now talk about how nice a lady I am. They didn't know me back then - back when. :3: :neutral:

Now the change didn't occur overnight but it has occurred over time and I am still changing and growing as I go through each day and living and learning as well. I didn't get the way I was overnight so changing takes time. I am just grateful for all the people who have been with me along the way over the years, those who prayed for me, who loved me when I didn't love myself, who were always there for me no matter what time night or day and for God who has always been here for me and loved me unconditionally. I am a miracle and others here are miracles. To come from what we were to where we are today.

Just know that whether you are here with us on the board, in a rehab or anywhere else, we will be with you in thought and prayer. When you get a chance you stay in touch with us please. When you get out come back and share with us. We'll be right here waiting for you. That has always given me comfort knowing there would be someone, somewhere who cared about me waiting and we will be. Until you go keep coming and sharing with us because we do really care about you. :42:

[CD BUCKBERRY]

Kessa,Just try and get clean what ever way you can,just try it might work.

[gettinfree]

Kessa...Love ya...M :D

[ChanceDurden]

Kessa,

Thank you for your post! I always thought AA was cult-like, too. Until I realized that most of the members are all just human beings with one thing in common: Addiction. (Okay, two things: And sobriety.)

Now I laugh about how scared I was of a program and people who really have no ulterior motives or intention to "convert" or "brainwash" me. After a year of meetings and fellowship ... For me, it's about being able to (finally!) relate to other people, and to learn and grow and gain confidence. I've seen people pull their lives together, and it's inspired me to stay sober, not only for myself, but because my sobriety is important to these people -- my friends -- who have supported me. For me, it's about fellowship, education and growth.

Research also shows that nearly all rehab programs have the same long-term success rate: Less than five percent. Closer to 1 percent in the first year. The only "insurance" toward sobriety that has proven results above that rate is an education program of some kind: usually a 12-step program. That's a fact that has been proven over and over again (that's scientifically proven -- I don't trust "in-house" statistics, either).

Maybe the only reason there is more success with 12-step programs is simply because the person who wants to stay sober is taking a more active role in their recovery. Maybe it's NOT the teaching of the "steps." Maybe it's NOT the 70-plus year old text of the Big Book. ... And maybe it's NOT the acceptance of a "higher power" (whatever that may be).

Maybe that so-called "higher power" is something as simple as having the opportunity to talk to and listen to and relate with people so I'm not struggling through this on my own.

I just know that it's worked for me. That's not a cheesy slogan. Okay, well maybe it is. But it's also a fact in my life. It's worked for me. I'm 34 and I drank for 20 years. The freedom from the desire to drink or the worry of trying to "contain" my consumption is the most free I've felt ... ever.

And I wouldn't trade my friendships with those drunks and junkies in AA for anything in the world. ;)

I think you will likely discover the same thing. It's been a lot of work for me, and I wish you many, many happy discoveries during your time in treatment. Some of it will likely be the hardest work of your life. ... This opportunity at sobriety is a gift: You will never have another one like this one. Believe that.

I look forward to reading more from you!!!

[letgo]

Hi kessa,
The replies here are great and I agree with so much of what has been said. Here's my two penneth.
Just GO and give rehab a try. What have you got to lose? If it's not for you, you can always leave but having been in rehab I strongly suggest you give it everything you have. I don't know what coolaide is but I do know alcoholism and addiction are progressive illnesses. In the end I could drink ¾ of a bottle or almost a bottle of vodka a day (that's a litre. 1 litre = 33.81 US ounces) and some months before I went into rehab I was mixing alcohol with sleepers, benzos and anti-depressants. I don't do that today because of this program. But I have had to learn, be open minded and in the beginning suspend all judgement. Let us know how you get on.

[tonyb]

hi again kessa, scared?? is that all, I'm not sure about language rules here but lets just say my laundry bill for my underwear was massive.Its cool to be scared, you will find friendship ,love and support in this program.True friends not fairweather friends, ones who are there when you are down, who would actually find great happiness in your successes in recovery and in life ,who will be there when things dont go to plan.Sounds like an exageration, its not, you get back what you put in.As for the steps, when you start to understand what they mean to you it will surprise you they make perfect sense, to me at least.I was told this is a simple program for complicated people.That sums it up, stay in contact with the fellowship where else do you get this kind of support and the only "fee" is the desire to stop drinking/using, irrelevant of colour ,creed , sexual persuasion etc.,thats all we need.Good luck:29:

[kessa]

TonyB, you had me laughing my a** off about the underwear thing. Thanks for the post, i dont know the rules here either, i am new to this as well. everyone else thanks for your post and support.

[kessa]

two other things, one is the slogan hey hey what do ya say AA/NA IS THE ONLY WAY, well how do yall know its the only way, have you tried smart recovery and other programs that are not 12 step, that is so arrogant. Another have you thought of all the people that do not believe in god in your program, thay are using thier inner strength, its horrible to tell people they dont have any, the first step says we WERE powerless not are. mabye they meant they WERE powerless, until the addmitted they had a problem, then they regained thier power.

[BIG AL]

na is not only way but if u could have used your inner strenght to change u would of did it yrs ago.if u are true alcholic u cannot rely on yourself to keep yourself sober and clean.big book of AA says we dont have a monopoly on sobreity.why is it so hard for people to admit defeat.was not hard for me.anyone else find it easy to admit defeat and become willin to listen to people who have done this before them?or was it hard for u let me know im interested.

[annalittlebit]

I think that alot of us have tried many ways to control our addictions before finding AA. I know that I did. For me, this is the way I've found that works. So I have no reason to continue looking for other ways. I hope you understand that no one here is trying to recruit you in any way--Just hoping to help you find something that works for you-------And whether it's AA or not this is a great place to share your thoughts----I do hope you keep us informed of your progress and I wish you the very best!!!!!!!! :smile:

[francie21805]

Hey Kessa, glad you still here! I haven’t been around that long and maybe just haven’t heard the slogan “hey hey what do ya say AA/NA is the only way” YET. All I know is that I was lead to A.A. and it’s working for me, so, I don’t feel the need to look else where. I don’t know anyone, YET, or have I tried to work other programs, so I can’t share on that. I do believe that if someone wants to get sober and are willing to do some work, they stand a good chance. I have witness that.

The topic of God, sometimes, makes for very interesting meetings. I have learned a lot in these meetings. No one ever told me I had believe in their God or Higher Power. I just had to found a God, Higher Power, etc…, of my understanding and it had to be greater than myself.

Thank you for sharing and let us know how you're doing.
Wishing you all the best!

[kessa]

first of all i am admitting defeat, that is why i am going to rehab in a few days, but i feel it was my own inner strength that brought me to seek help, that does take strength to admit that you have a problem and ask for help, i myself do believe in god, but as a former athiest there is no god as you understand him, they cant because the dont believe in a power higher than thenselves, there are alot of athiest in the program so they did it with support from other members and thier own strength, lord knows i need support, i am going to a meeting to night. I am about to have a meltdown, rehab in five days.

[westswoman]

Maybe you will check out the, ASK MIKE" forum. Third one down on the home page. I read his testimony and listened to his, 8 step program. The 12 steps and AA works for me, so I too have no need to look else where. Mike has a unique approach and came from where you are now. Give it a read. I have no problem surrendering and giving God my all. I am certainly not judging nor condeming you. You sound very angry and I can relate 100%. Please don't give up!!

[zoomie]

No one program is the right way or the only way. The thing they have in common is that they want to help you in any way they can. I'm not so sure there is a God,but just in case I do follow some guide lines. I am powerless over alcohol because it has kicked my butt... so I surrender to win over that battle. I'm not powerless over myself and have the power to get myself to meetings and hear other people talk about how they over came their troubles about alcohol and other things. When your powerless that does not mean helpless. It takes a lot for a person to admit they need help and going and getting it. Just as it takes a lot to give up life for a while to go to rehab. Best of luck to you! Just think of it as an adventure and maybe a new life. I was thinking last night on how much I miss the fun times of drinking. But the trouble I got into drinking makes me not want to drink even for the fun times. If I was drinking I would not be able to hold down a job because I'd call in sick hungover. I would not be able to go to school because I would be drinking during the time I should study. I spent many weekends hung over thus not spending time with my kids. I never was a mean drunk, never got a DWI, never arrested, never lost too many things, just a lot of time I could have put to good use. I did not like myself very much drinking and being lazy and drinking when i should not have. Today however I like myself more because i'm more productive and a nicer person. Change is not easy,but change we must or we will continue to drink and hurt ourselves and others. Sorry for such a long post! I just hope you'll give recovery a chance no matter what program you decide to use.

[kessa]

By the way, i think this forum should be open to discusion. Everytime i try to dicsuss something i find odd about Na, no one wants to dicuss it, they all just tell me how great the program is, not one person thanked me for my replys, i think that is a little rude.

[gettinfree]

:42:

[jobongos]

thanks for your replys , by the way .. i have read them , and i also have seen where others did thank you, , and have entered into discussion with you. is it really a discussion you want , or just someone to agree with you? i remember looking in the mirror one day and questioning if there was a god. i said i dont know if you are real and if i really believe , well something answered me , with a chuckle i heard" well damnit , if you dont believe in me why are you talking to me?" you can keep fighting this all you want , when it comes down to it , you are wooped , a power greater than you "booze and drugs" has brought you here ... and if you are powerful enuff to just walk away you wouldnt be here, it doesnt matter what method or program or philosophy you choose or that chooses you , it will be a power greater than you that teaches you how to live again with out dope. most of us here already have had that battle you are going thru and will just patiently wait until you have something to add. and if you wish, most of us will continue to simply give our experience , strength , and HOPE , cause that is all we got. until then , like my sponsor says " SO WHAT .....NOW WHAT ??"

[nobenzo]

I did not follow anything, except to pray(God get me thru this) as needed.
I do not go to any organized meetings, never have. No little saying saved the day for me w/drugs(perscription). Whatever it takes for you, find and do it. It never occurred to me what others were doing, when it is time time for you to w/draw, do it. It is not a group affair(at least not for me).
My heart(HS) gave me strength to stop poisoning my body. I knew had to get off just like got on. I went in room, shut door, and withdrew.
Halloween is my one year ann. (Id just as soon forget it and no celebrating it round here). I am back healthy and happy, but gave up dramatic lifestyle, for peace and calmness(no chaos). I now resolve problems head on and structure my environment so I can manage it w/out pills. Really pretty simple and easy, if peace is what looking for. You may know another way, but JC is the only was Ive found. When I came thru this I can look back and see Gods hand so clearly, b/c I am not this strong on my own, few are. I had NO help, hubby held hand and sat w/me during suicidal episodes. JC is there for you if you trust him, up is a great way to go!!He loves you and can restore you.

blessings
amanda

[paulm]

unfortunately in larger metropolitan areas it seems for the number of people that walk into the halls very few (you're right, about 5%) choose to stay. some forced by the courts some come of their own volition, either way, they don't choose to ride it out. They don't take suggestions, the dump a lot of garbage in the meetings and ditch out and soon return to drinking and getting high. these are the unfortunates referenced in How it Works. It does however plant a seed and when the pain gets great enough those same people find their way back, a little more desparate and a few more stay. So yes,
This could certainly be brainwashing, it could also be a miracle. If I stay sober long enough I may get to know for real, without bias, what is really happening. I'm not there yet. I am confident I have a way of thinking and acting that when mixed with booze and drugs, for me is deadly. this is the only way I know how to get clean. Some days I detest the slogans, and the simplicity, because after all it has to be more convuluded than this. Simplicity isn't what addicts are made of.
you didn't get sick over night, so go easy on yourself. Keep purging you have a safe place here, try not to use today,