WARNING! Controversial thread:

[alcoholrehabcoach]

What does the word "Alcoholic" mean to you?

Can you define it for yourself in a single sentence?

[annalittlebit]

A person who has lost all control where alcohol is concerned and believes they are powerless.

[McDaniel N.]

To be in a hopeless darkside of weak energy:183:

[francie21805]

I lose all control of my alcoholic consumption once I start to drink.

[Norb]

:mad:

A person who has unwanted consequences because of their use of alcohol.

[admin]

A person who is addicted to alcohol. Also something containing alcohol like an alcoholic beverage.

[BIG AL]

A PERSON WHO HAS A SPIRITUAL MALADY

[snugsnug]

ANY person born to ANY human who's drinking has caused their life to become unmanageable.

[sonia n]

WOW is a good one.:idea:

For me it was running from reality, loss of spirituality.:17:

[Humblepie]

I just posted this in another thread before I read this thread.
The definition of an alcoholic is someone who cannot control our drinking once we have taken the first drink, and yet we try.

[janbear]

compulsion to continue drinking after the first one creating more powerlessness and unmanageablity in my life.

[CleverCelt]

Displaying an allergic reaction to alcohol by breaking out in drunks and bad decisions!

[Craig A.]

An alcoholic truly lost the will to live forgetting everything (themselves,family,friends,jobs,relationships,etc. ..)!

[admin]

what I am - an alcoholic

[alcoholrehabcoach]

Wow! Great answers! I want to personally thank each of you for putting yourselves out there, and taking a stand on what the word "alcoholic" means to you.

Before starting this thread, I had a person call me up, a member of this forum, who was actually quite angry about some of the posts that I've been making. This person was basically telling me to quit rocking the boat, and take my opinions elsewhere.

But as I've said before, my views are only a threat to people who are unsure of theirs. And if you are uncertain about your views, to me that's all the more reason to consider somebody else's.

Again thank you all for your ongoing participation and support, not just for me, but especially for each other.

Now are ya ready for the next question?

Makes this one look easy!

Follow the thread to "WARNING! If you thought THAT was hard..." (http://www.cyberrecovery.net/forums/showthread.php?t=19814)

[nowwhat]

Me? jk...

Umm... "Alhoholic" - someone that allows alcohol to control every aspect of life and well being.

- ayana

[santana]

a lost soul :8:

[DrumRobC]

With an alcoholic it's not necessarily the number of days in a row they drink, but HOW they drink - are they able to stop after 1 or two? What's the motivation for drinking? Whether or not there are immediate consequences for using, are there forseeable ones in the future?

I believe an alcoholic must diagnose themselves, nobody can do it for them.

just my thoughts.

[alcoholrehabcoach]

I believe an alcoholic must diagnose themselves, nobody can do it for them.




Thank you for those powerful words of personal responsibility.

I totally agree. And I believe that nobody but themselves can be the judge of whether or not they are fully recovered and have nothing left to fear.

[B_Rad]

Alcohol is but a symptom of the disease / condition
Thats what recovery is all about.

[alcoholrehabcoach]

Yes, the misuse of alcohol is symptomatic of an individual's dis-ease, or discomfort with their condition.

What do you believe an alcoholic might be looking to recover?

[annalittlebit]

I was so lost and wanted desperately to recover myself---the person i had always been--someone who smiled and in turn put a smile on others faces---someone who could laugh and cry and just care about anything at all----I have to say that with the help of God and a multitude of new found friends i have recovered those things---I'm eternally Grateful!!!! Thanks

[endywood]

Yes, the misuse of alcohol is symptomatic of an individual's dis-ease, or discomfort with their condition.

What do you believe an alcoholic might be looking to recover?

I've never looked at this issue in this way before. I always felt like recovery was an entity all by itself- the end goal, the answer to the question, solution to the problem- but maybe something lacking or messed up in the soul is what lead to alcoholism in the first place? The need for recovery already there before the first drink was ever taken at 19 years old?

I'm not able to put some things into words right now; I'm working this out, my mind and heart are tired.

[BIG AL]

I would say a alcholic is looking to recover his life,wich is in utter ruin.Thats what I wanted my life back and everything that comes with that.I tell you the first thing I wanted back was my freedom

[Deeters]

A person who drinks alcohol to numb themselves from wanting to feel.

[paulm]

What do you believe an alcoholic might be looking to recover?

an ACTIVE alcoholic, aka DRUNK, may be looking to recaptrue the good times they once were able to have with the drink. I was that way with my weed for a long time before I put it down.
a sober drunk in recovery may be looking to recover their life, clear the wreckage of the past and do some good for someone else.

:162:the list is endless on why one drinks and what they are trying to recover.:16:

[B_Rad]

Yes, the misuse of alcohol is symptomatic of an individual's dis-ease, or discomfort with their condition.

What do you believe an alcoholic might be looking to recover?

Interesting Cause:
The Second steps states we can be RESTORED to sanity.
Yes But I think that from my personal experience. I have never really had well rounded sanity. So restore might not be the "perfect" word.
My potential for sanity is restored though working and living the program.
strive to LIVE a more spiritual life
strive to GROW in my spiritual life
And practice behaviors that make this possible.
We live (working the steps) our way into right thinking not think our way into right living
broke can't fix broke
Our best thinking got us in this state

[BIG AL]

MY SPONSOR SAYS I THINK TO MUCH

[B_Rad]

I've never looked at this issue in this way before. I always felt like recovery was an entity all by itself- the end goal, the answer to the question, solution to the problem- but maybe something lacking or messed up in the soul is what lead to alcoholism in the first place? The need for recovery already there before the first drink was ever taken at 19 years old?

I'm not able to put some things into words right now; I'm working this out, my mind and heart are tired.


The only promise is freedom from active addiction, but when freedom is
attained via recovery rather than just abstinence our thinking changes.
Our lives improve. Our responses to lifes twists and turn changes for the posistive. And we can/will get a life worth living.
After our basic needs are met human need certain "things to thrive"
the things are
strive to LIVE a more spiritual life
strive to GROW in my spiritual life
And practice behaviors that make this possible.
Stay Clean
go to meetings become part of
Get and be part of a support groups of clean friends in the program
let people get to know us and we know them
get a sponsor and work the steps
Get into service in the program (life is all about service to our fellow
humans)

PATH OF EXCESS LEADS TO THE TOWER OF WISDOM (the foot of the Tower)
OR
Jails, Instituitions, and Death

[shrubbery]

For myself, what I wanted to recover was the ability to look at the person in the mirror directly in the eye and not get violently sick. I hated it when I had to put on my contacts, or pull an eyelash or dust mote out of an eye. It meant I had to look at outward facade that hid the source of my problems. I had to recover a way to make myself comfortable being a friend to myself; and eventually learning to love myself.

Inside the wall I had shamelessly built to keep myself from being understood, loved, or even accepted; I festered away with worry. I knew it would take strong arms to break down that wall! A higher power and the fellowship of my brothers and sisters in the 12 step programs has enabled me to recover a life outrside those too tight walls!

Peace

[Chewi]

I was POWERLESS over alcohol, my life had become UNMANAGABLE.

An alcoholic meets the requirements of the first step. :)

[Miss Rizzo]

An alcoholic is someone who is addicted to alcohol. That's all there is to it. It's someone who simply can't live a day without it.

[CD BUCKBERRY]

Miss Rizzo,You are both correct,about an Alcoholic ,they are someone who is physically addicted to alcohol.Just like a drug addict is addicted to drugs.We are all addicts of some sort or another.

[B_Rad]

NA AA both 12 steps

"All Alcoholics are Addicts. Not all Addicts are Alcoholics"

An Alcoholic is an addict who's drug of choice is Alcohol.

Alcohol is a liquid drug.

The disease is the same. The solution is the same.

I heard AA "allows" pot smoking.

DOH!

Abstinence does not equal recovery

[Bob-J]

For me The Big Book explains it best in the Third Chapter Page30 Second Paragraph.
"We Alcoholics are men and women who have lost the ability to control our Drinking!"

[paulm]

I heard AA "allows" pot smoking.

DOH!
Abstinence does not equal recovery

Idiot, Tell me you are not serious!:sad:

[paulm]

It's someone who simply can't live a day without it.

many of alcoholics have lenthy periods of dry spells, it's when they take the drink they are in trouble. They live days, weeks, maybe even months inbetween bouts, in an attempt to control it, then they end up drunk again.

when I had my weed smoking days, there wasn't really much time inbetween high's, I lived to use and used to live, I really can identify with where you're coming from saying someone an alcoholic is someone who can't live a day without it. I identify with the person who said that alkie's are addicts, their drug of choice is alcohol.
I know that so many garden variety drunks would disagree with being addicts. but it is said that booze and drugs are but a symptom of underlying causes.
I am grateful to be clean today.
Thanks Rizz.:85:

[francie21805]

I heard AA "allows" pot smoking.

DOH! Abstinence does not equal recovery

Not where I'm being raised. No illegal of any kind, no abuse of prescriptions or over the counter either.

All this is covered in our literature.

[B_Rad]

Real spiritual,
Apparently your still hanging on to some of your character defects!
Clean is clean, sober is absence of alcohol


Idiot, Tell me you are not serious!:sad:

[flick]

sober is more than absence of alcohol; "dry" is the absence of alcohol....sober is far more, we all have our beliefs behind why we are addicted, from "my understanding" the majority have emotional, mental and spiritual issues, character defects within or behind them. It is when we start addressing those issues, "working the programme" that we begin to get an idea of what "sober" is!!!.....I have been dry and emotionally drunk on quite a few occasions; "the stinkin' thinkin' was still going on even though I wasn't drinking or using!!!....just my opinion.

"an alcoholic is someone powerless over their addiction to alcohol"

[paulm]

Real spiritual,
Apparently your still hanging on to some of your character defects!
Clean is clean, sober is absence of alcohol
it was insensitive, lacking something for sure, mabe it was the lack of sprituality. That didn't motivate the jab though. I battled with posting it, taking it down even. I don't sit here happy I called someone an idiot. I just thought it was a really weird comment and spreading of misinformation. I stood behind my decision to post it; not sure it was entirely necessary.

your seem to be getting some questionable information... Clean is clean, sober is absence of alcohol;
listen to yourself trying to be confrontational... I don't need to take sides on which program works best for whom, neither do you. do what's best for you and quit trying to incite a riot.
Thanks B-Rad, God Bless.

[zoomie]

I do hope there is no fighting among members because we do not fight here.

[paulm]

Nah, just keeping my side of the street clean, and observing that were not all perfect, that's why there's 65,000 programs

[DaveH]

Paul,
In my program I have found that my "street cleaning" always resulted in spiritual growth...Enjoy
Regards,
Dave

[d10y]

I got something to say! teeeheee

Now I realize I am new to your boards..... HOWEVER....

A DRUG IS A DRUG IS A DRUG! whatever your choice may be... clean is sober and sober is clean well unless of course you havent showered in months. You have havent you? showered that is?? Cause believe me I am the one to tell you . Dude you smell!! Need some soap?

But for the grace of God there go I !

Who are we to JUDGE anyone's spirtuality.!!? My relationship with my higher power GOD is mine. Between him and me. NO one else.

I would like to share these 3 little rules that I try to follow and practice daily. I feel may apply here.


1) There is God's buisness.
2) My buisness.
3) NONE of my buisness.

I may be totally reading this post wrong and have misunderstood.... .

[Rockin Big Daddy]

Our behavior is as absurd and incomprehensible with respect to the first drink as that of an individual with a passion, say, for jay-walking. He gets a thrill out of hanging out at bars. He enjoys himself for a few years in spite of friendly warnings. Up to this point you would label him as a foolish chap having queer ideas of fun.

Luck then deserts him and he goes out on sprees several times in succession. Presently he gets drunk again and this time he ends up in the hospital. Within a week after leaving the hospital he's back drinking. He tells you he has decided to stop drinking for good, but in a few weeks he is back drinking.

On through the years this conduct continues, accompanied by his continual promises to be careful or to keep away from the bars altogether. Finally, he can no longer work, his wife gets a divorce and he is held up to ridicule. He tries every known means to get the drinking idea out of his head. He shuts himself up in an asylum, hoping to mend his ways.

But the day he comes out he races back to the bar, which sets off another spree. Such a man would be crazy, wouldn't he?

[BIG AL]

I love that page in the book.I love the story of the jay-walker

[paulm]

I read that on Monday morning and at the meeting that night. In attempt to drive a point home, someone read that page out of the big book. I chuckeld at how appropriae and timely It was.

[Joplinfrk]

Being powerless over my addiction.

We are here to fight the good fight together. This isn't 1939, it's 2009. Much more to get high with nowadays. Dr. Bob was a drug addict, too.

Please, don't fight.

[skyhook]

Gosh I love this Forum ! There is so much here,,,matters not what you are looking for; if you look hard enough you will find an answer.

Some of the members speak matter of fact and down to earth, others recite book chapter and verse, some couch their replies in passive aggressive rhymes and riddles, others cry out for freedom and answers, some demonstrate unconditional love and understanding, some share their incredible knoweldge and experience, some display their credentials, some show up for todays hope...the list is as endless as the sands of the beach.
Any question, you will get a wide cross section of answers and sharing of each others hope, faith and experience. The good memebers, never make it personal or tread on anothers experience. The good ones never get offended by questions or opinions that differ from theirs.

The common theme is always healing !!!

So many variety of answers, that you can even find one that fits you just right. Maybe the one you were looking for all along, the comfortable one. If you would rather not, you can stay clear of the hard answers, the ones not so easy to follow, or too hard to wrap our minds around today.

I have had this burning question to ask the Forum community. Maybe someone can point me to the thread that addresses it. My quest is sincere.

What do you tell the former addict or alcoholic who has completely recovered ? Not perfect people, just perfectly recovered from the poison that previously captured them ?

We are out there.

[Starlight]

What do you tell the former addict or alcoholic who has completely recovered ?
I would say "teach me what you have learned."

[flick]

I'm not sure what format/in what regard you're asking after "what do you tell"?

something I do know, no matter if an addict is 'recovered' or not, there is always room for growth and learning, to stop is to die. (in this life anyways):wink:

I like your response Starlight :D

[Craig A.]

I always heard a recovered alcoholic is an alcoholic who died sober! Tell an angel!!!

[Mycool]

I'm not sure what completly recovered means? Is it like being completly grown,completely learned, completley arrived?

The spiritual journey involves going beyond hope and fear, stepping into unknown territory, continually moving forward. The most important aspect of being on the spiritual path may be to just keep moving.—Pema Chodron

[Chewi]

I just want to add that while many/most alcoholics drink every day, there are plenty of alcoholics that do not. Many go days, weeks, months inbetween, but when they drink they have no control over alcohol. "Binge" and "periodic" drinkers are like this. When I was younger I drank every day. I quit, had kids, then kept it to the weekends. Of course, I was still obsessing every day....

What do I want to recover?

- My life
- My soul
- My relationship with God and other people

[flick]

I too ended up becoming a binge drinker, due to kids and work, I'd go without for two weeks and then whammo.......and for me I feel the obsessing was peaking during the two weeks I was away at work each time and not drinking......I was on a zero tolerance mine site for any drugs and alcohol, I was still a really heavy pot smoker and had to cold turkey out on that too. So that left me with one very dysfunctional mind thinking over time all the time!!!

The only time I find myself obsessing since coming into recovery has been when I've relapsed with the alcohol, and there have been times when I have emotionally relapsed and not picked up.

I know when my sobriety is reasonably healthy as I no longer obsess!!

[McGowdog]

I always heard a recovered alcoholic is an alcoholic who died sober! Tell an angel!!!

That's wrong. The recovered alcoholic is described all through the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous. You may be mistaking that word "recovered" with "cured". A recovered alcoholic is merely one who took the A.A. solution and it worked. The book talks about it on page 57:

"Seemingly, he could not drink even if he could. God had restored his sanity."



To the OP; An alcoholic is simply someone who loses the control of their liquor consumption once they start AND... at the same time, has a mind that will bring them back to booze... aka has the mental obsession that someday, they will be able to control and enjoy their drinking.

A hard drinker is not an alcoholic and an alcoholic is not a hard drinker.

Hard drinkers my be "addicted" to alcohol, but alcoholics are not "addicted" to alcohol. It's a bit more complicated than that. It's described in the 1st 55 pages of the A.A. book, starting with Dr's Opinion.

[BIG AL]

The big book tells us we have RECOVERED from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body.

[annalittlebit]

I've been reading these for a few days and just have to add my thoughts----To me, a recovered alcoholic would be someone who could have an occasional drink like "normal" people without having it get out of control---I know that I'll never be that person--So I'll always consider myself to be a recovering alcoholic--Always Grateful--But always recovering......

[skyhook]

I could'nt tell them nothing, they would be dead and still might not be recovered then , they still have to go see their GOD of their understanding, to be judge !!!


Mrs. Skyhook will be so pleased when I let her know she can now cash in that life insurance policy...she's been saying I'm dead for years...Oh wait, JB would you send her the memo...that is, of course if you actually are getting this post...:):eek:

I'm going to spend some time shortly, and clarify my previous post. I appreciate hearing others thoughts on this. Obviously, it is a pivotal and important topic, worthy of our attention. If we are simply sharing our own experience and understanding from the heart, than I do not see the point in challenging someone elses experience, history or being.

Unless of course, some may find this topic offensive, in which case I apologize in advance, if I misunderstood this Forum as open and uncensored.

[annalittlebit]

The thing I've always loved about coming here is the fact that it is an Open Forum----And, while I might not always agree with everything I read, I leave here every day having learned something and grown some----And some posts make me change my thinking, but always for the good----Be Safe Everyone
And as they say----Take What You Need etc., etc.

[DaveH]

Skyhook,
I would tell them God Bless!!!! If it is working for them, who am I to argue the point. It didn't work that way for me yet I am grateful it has worked that way for them. I have never understood why people in recovery feel the need to be dismissive of folks who recover in a different manner. Search the internet and you find loads of folks who feel the need to denigrate AA, especially when they are advertising another way to recover. Go to AA and there are no shortage of recovering folks who will argue passionately that AA is the only way too. From my perspective, debating an opinion against an experience is a loosing proposition. If you are a recovering addict/alcoholic, know that I rejoice with you in your new freedom. And if you are a recovered addict/alcoholic, I do the same. Both definitions will permit you to be the person that your HP always intended for you to be.
Warmest Regards to the Recovered and the Recovering,
DaveH

[McGowdog]

...To me, a recovered alcoholic would be someone who could have an occasional drink like "normal" people without having it get out of control---...

No. That would be called a normal or social drinker... not an alcoholic of any variety.



An alcoholic of any variety has at certain times the inability to both;
If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, or
when drinking, you have little control over the amount you take.
That's in the first paragraph on Chaper 4, We Agnostics if you'd like to check it out.

In fact, the A.A. program is pretty adamant about the issue.

See for yourself. It says, "In the preceding chapters you have learned something of alcoholism. We hope we have made clear the distinction between the alcoholic and the nonalcoholic.

I have made that distinction. It's a very important one. Wouldn't you all like to make that distinction too?

[Leadfoot]

The recovered alcoholic is described all through the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous. You may be mistaking that word "recovered" with "cured". A recovered alcoholic is merely one who took the A.A. solution and it worked.

That was my first thought. We have "Recovered" from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body. That describes the Phenomonon of Craving and the Mental Obsession (mind and body) If you're still having either of these symptoms then indeed you are still "Recovering"
Right here on Pg 85
We will seldom be interested in liquor. If tempted, we recoil from it as from a hot flame. We react sanely and normally, and we will find that this has happened automatically. We will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle of it. We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality safe and protected. We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us.
If the problem doesn't exist anymore, what else can we call it other than "Recovered"
Leadfoot

[flick]

:1:good share leadfoot, thank's for your input, and everyone else here too, a very interesting debate for sure.

I would like to "suggest" that while it may be an open forum that we remember not to "attack" each other; if you have something to say then go for it re the topic; BUT not try and personalise it toward one another.

Thank you. :smile:

[skyhook]

I've been reading these for a few days and just have to add my thoughts----To me, a recovered alcoholic would be someone who could have an occasional drink like "normal" people without having it get out of control---I know that I'll never be that person--So I'll always consider myself to be a recovering alcoholic--Always Grateful--But always recovering......

[QUOTE=McGowdog;144527]No. That would be called a normal or social drinker... not an alcoholic of any variety.

How many alcoholics started out a social , normal or functional ? How many of these same "classifications" (almost like some kind of warped hierarchy)
of non-alcohloics have ever hit the road after a few too many and gotten a dui or worse. Was there consequences any worse than that of the acknowledged alcoholic, in the same situation?

Semantics and reciting page numbers over simplifies in a one size fits all mentality. Choosing to self medicate and the reasons why is the meat...ranking levels of use or promoting ones experience over anothers is milk.

My personal conviction is not to let my previous life of using define me today. It was a season, it remains a part of the fiber of my life, but with work and time, using is no longer a viable option for me in dealing with lifes inevitable heartache (either real or percieved). Does that mean, I don't have days when I rememeber (all too well) the option of using? Of course I do. But like learning not to run in the street when cars are coming, I have learned that using is not a solution and dangerous to my well-being. Time has afforded me the perspective of growth, accountability and the by-product of freedom from my previous master...drugs.

Freedom comes with a cost and it starts with learning new patterns of choice and reinforcing the same over time.

I have more to say, but will take this in pieces, so this does not become a wayward manifesto, or bore somebody to tears.

I do believe in and support most of the tenants of AA and NA. The ones that I do not support are minor in the big picture.

[annalittlebit]

I think Flick has a great suggestion---We need the newcomers to know that they can post something on cyber without being attacked for sharing their thoughts----

[McGowdog]

No. That ...

How many alcoholics started out a social , normal or functional ? How many of these same "classifications" (almost like some kind of warped hierarchy)
of non-alcohloics have ever hit the road after a few too many and gotten a dui or worse. Was there consequences any worse than that of the acknowledged alcoholic, in the same situation? ...

Ummm... who cares?

I'm not interested in the plight of non-alcoholics.

If you can stay sober on mind control, fear of punishment, fear of harming people, love thy neighbor, etc... do it.

If you can stay sober on frothy emotional appeal, do it.

If you can stay sober on going to A.A. meetings and reciting the Serenity Prayer 50 times a day, do it.

If you can stay sober for the good of the M.A.D.D. organization, do it.

If none of that works and you have a drinking problem and want to do something about it, give the A.A. program as outlined in the book a try.

[skyhook]

I think there is nothing wrong with recognizing early signs and encouraging those who exhibit and acknowledge them, to seek help. Not only for themselves, but for the greater good of society and including all the reasons you list.

Why not care about the plight of the non-alcoholic...possibly soon to be alcoholic? Is calamity of spirit and its consequences, the exclusive realm of the alcoholic ?

It seems to me if the medical profession took this approach, they would prefer to sit back, stock defibillator paddles and just wait for the "serious" patients.

I think we all agree that the pursuit of healing, at any level, is worthy.

Peace.