Some Questions and Comments after Week One...

[Ortho]

I just had some questions and comments of things that are on my mind, and I felt this would be the best place to post them. If Mike or anyone else would like to chime in, then please feel free.

-I don't know if I'm interpreting a lot of this site and other things that are recovery oriented such as AA correctly or not, but it seems to me that there is a message that that drinking is almost always a negative. Is that a correct assessment or not??

I honestly do not feel that responsible drinking is bad. I feel that most people who do drink do it responsibly, and I have no issue with that. I also feel that irresponsible drinking is very bad. The reason I quit isn't because I think alcohol is bad. I quit because I was very wreckless and irresponsible with it and I put myself in extreme jeopardy so many times that I cannot believe I didn't come to a crashing hault rather than stopping on my own. I also feel that I've had setbacks due to constant binge drinking, but that was due to the fact that I binged and didn't control it, not because I drank in the first place. I don't mind if my friends or family drink because I feel most of them do it responsibly.


-Having said what I said above, it's been kind of awkward breaking the news to several people that I know that I've quit drinking and don't plan to do it again any time soon. When they ask why, I point to a few examples of when I put myself in situations that could have easily turned out to be much more disastrous than what they did, and that I just don't want to take anymore chances. The common response is "well, just don't drink so much and you'll be fine." They're right, but what they don't understand is that the best way for me to not drink "so much" is to not drink at all. I don't know if I can make them understand that. I suspect that certain people now think of me as being weak because I cannot do something as simple as control my drinking. What do I say to these people, if anything??


-Is it possible for me to become a social and responsible drinker?? Before answering that, don't panic. I haven't been sober for that long (seven days), but I have no plans on drinking tomorrow, or the next day. I have some college friends that are coming to visit me over the Fourth of July, and I've already told them that I've quit drinking. ("for awhile" is how I put it. I never told them it was for good, and maybe it's not, but it is going to be for at least one more week) I said I had no problems hanging out with them and that I still wanted them to come, but that I've scared myself one too many times and because of that I'm not going to drink.

However, I don't think there is anything wrong with being a social and responsible drinker, and if I could some day become one myself I don't think that it would be a bad thing. It's just right now I do not feel that I can, and I feel that a non-drinker is ten times better than a habitual binge drinker, which is what I am/was.


-Am I an alcoholic, or a habitual binge drinker?? The reason I ask is because quitting so far hasn't been THAT much of a struggle. I don't have cravings if I don't drink. I just binge when I do drink. I want my fourth drink way more than I want my first, and my eighth drink way more than I want my fourth, and my twelve drink more than my eighth, and so on. Is there even a difference between an alcoholic and a habitual binge drinker?? I'm asking because I don't know. I'm not trying to deny that I am an alcoholic. I'm merely trying to identify whether or not I am one. I'm being totally honest when I say that.


-I've been able to tell most of my friends over the past week (although not all), but I don't know how to tell my parents. I just visited them over the weekend, and wanted to tell them, but I didn't. The biggest issue is that they have no idea how irresponsible I've been over the past ten years. They have no idea of how on a seemingly regular basis, I put myself in a jeopardizing situation that could have turned out horribly bad. If I told them, it would upset them and scare them, especially since I've been sober for such a short time (one week). I want to tell them, but decided it's better to talk about a shaky past once it's further in the past. I wanted to give it a few weeks or months rather than just a few days. I don't know how they'll react. I'd like to think that relief will be one of the emotions, but it may not be the only one. Anger might be another because they will not be able to understand why I did so many stupid things. To be honest, I'm not sure I can explain that to them. Both my parents drink (responsibly) and I don't think they'll point to alcohol as being the source of the problem. They'll point to my own personal irresponsibility as being the source of the problem, and I can't say that I think they're entirely wrong. Still, it's an unplesant thing to think about. It's not going to be easy for me to admit to my parents what a screw up I was for so many years, and that the only reason I'm not in jail and have not lost my job is because I'm very very very lucky.


-The regrets of my wreckless past is still haunting me, along with asking myself "what if this had happened??" What if that had happened??" "What if I hadn't been so lucky??" It's driving me crazy. I'd almost describe it as borderlined tortureous. Is there a way to deal with this, or is it good that I feel this way??

Anyway, I'm still feeling out this whole recovery thing. I hope the above post doesn't alarm anyone or upset anyone. I know some of it is unlike what most people probably post and feel, but I wanted to share nevertheless. I'm still committed to quitting, and sometimes writing like I have helps, even if it sounds bizarre to others.

thanks, and peace,

Ortho

[alcoholrehabcoach]

Ortho,

Great post. Thanks for sharing.

Yes, from both personal and professional experience, I can tell you it is certainly possible for a person with a drinking problem, even an alcoholic person, to transform both their beliefs and behavior enough to become a person who can drink responsibly.

It all depends on two things:

1. How they define the word "alcoholic" and what their "drinking problem" really means to them.

2. How they define the word "responsible" and what "drinking responsibly" really means to them.


I want to congratulate you on your decision to consciously examine your behavior. Sounds to me like you are genuinely looking to improve. So before you have another drink, I recommend you start with this:

Write back and tell me what you think "Drinking responsibly" means to you. Not to anybody else. Once you know exactly what it means to you, you'll be in a much better place to assess whether or not it is possible to get there. For you, not for anybody else!


Cheers!


Mike
www.HighsteadAlcoholTreatment.com

[Ortho]

To me, drinking responsibly is pretty straightforward. I take it to mean drinking in a manner that not put yourself or anyone else at risk. I also take it to mean doing so in a manner that does not deny an individual, or people associated with the individual such as friends, family and loved ones, where the drinking is controlling the individual, and not the other way around. By this I mean a parent may not be putting a child in danger by drinking, but they may be neglecting that child if they cannot exhibit control over the alcohol.

I'm sure the more I think about it the more I'll refine that definition, but at this point in time that is what it means to me.

[alcoholrehabcoach]

To me, drinking responsibly is pretty straightforward. I take it to mean drinking in a manner that not put yourself or anyone else at risk. I also take it to mean doing so in a manner that does not deny an individual, or people associated with the individual such as friends, family and loved ones, where the drinking is controlling the individual, and not the other way around. By this I mean a parent may not be putting a child in danger by drinking, but they may be neglecting that child if they cannot exhibit control over the alcohol.

I'm sure the more I think about it the more I'll refine that definition, but at this point in time that is what it means to me.


Nice! So if you really had a choice, which would you prefer:

A) Be able to drink responsibly, without putting anyone at risk.

B) Continue to abstain from alcohol, and not even take a risk.

Where are you at with this today? Is drinking responsibly something you might want to be able to accomplish? Or are you happy with the path you're on?

It's totally up to you!

[BIG AL]

Yes, from both personal and professional experience, I can tell you it is certainly possible for a person with a drinking problem, even an alcoholic person, to transform both their beliefs and behavior enough to become a person who can drink responsibly.

I can tell you from personal experience that this sort of thinking almost killed me and killed many others.The thinkin that one day we shall drink like a normal drinker.

[clean42day]

for me - I tried that little experiment of "control" so many times and proved over and over again that I personally could not return to the days where I had an amount of control over my drinking or my behaivor. I crossed that line many many years ago - and the progression of my addiction took me 14 years into the pits of hell beyond that line. I eventually stopped trying that failed experiment and started telling myself the truth.


I don't explain myself or reveal parts of my past to people on a casual level. I simply say I am alergic to alcohol and that I don't drink. (period) there is no question mark behind that sentence in tone or inflection. and I leave it at that. If they cannot accept that answser - I have to ask myself if I really want people in my life who cannot honor such a simple social boundary?

I am not bothered by going to bars, being around family members who drink, nor by even the smell of alcohol. I do not crave it, romance the good ole days, or even care one way or the other. The desire to drink has been removed from my life and that is a precious freedom to me....

My sister and I recently went to a restaurant where we had to wait in the bar for a table to become open....she ordered and then the bartender asked me.....I ordered a virgin drink.....lol. My sister asked me - if I would "EVER" be able to drink again....and my answer was NO - and I don't have the desire to even try.

I am alergic to alcohol and when I drink - I break out in misdomeaners, felonies, handfcuffs and jails.......lol

I never want to do that again - so I don't test the waters.

I don't judge others if they drink or not - if they have a "problem" with alcohol it will reveal itself in time. My own lessons were not self-evident right away....and I am just really really grateful that I lived through the last one.

we don't diagnose eachother - we have our own experience with ourselves.

light and love

Gail

[annalittlebit]

Once a cucumber turns into a pickle--It CAN NEVER be a cucumber again!!!!!!!!! That is me in a nutshell------I CAN NEVER be a social drinker--or any other kind of a drinker--again----One drink would put me totally out of control again---I know this from the experience of having been sober for 20 years then, in a desperate and overwhelming moment, having 1 beer---It took me 5 years to once again get sober----I'm sober to stay---Recovery is the MOST important thing in my life---Like eating and breathing--It's essential to my well-being --- And I can't begin to wrap my head around the idea of ever getting complacent with my sobriety again---Life is too good now, even when bad things happen, to go down that road again---Happy 4th Everyone!!!!!! Be Safe!!!!!

[alcoholrehabcoach]

Some thoughts about personal responsibility...

To me, being response-able means being able to choose a response that serves your purpose.

Of course, that presupposes you know what your purpose is. Otherwise, how can you consciously respond? How can you assess the options? How can you find your way?

Knowing what is most important to you, knowing your values, knowing what is driving your behavior, knowing why you do the things you do, that's what gives you power.

When we understand that our beliefs drive our behavior, it puts us in the driver's seat. It puts us in control. It gives us the ability to judge and respond to things in a way that is aligned with our reasons for doing them in the first place.

When we don't see or understand our reasons for doing things, then we can't see or understand other ways of getting what we need. We don't really know what the target is.

We all have beliefs. We all have behavior. The question is, do your beliefs serve you? Or do they enslave you?

Here are three thoughts that have always served me well:

1. All meaning is context dependent.

2. Whether you believe you can, or you believe you can't, you're right.

3. If you don't know what to believe, you might as well believe something that works for you.


Live well! Be response-able! Be flexible!

"If you can't see God in all, you can't see God at all" - Yogi Bhajan


:smile:

www.HighsteadAlcoholTreatment.com (http://www.HighsteadAlcoholTreatment.com)

[Joplinfrk]

Great thoughts to ponder on this day we celebrate our independence! This is the first July 4th where I can honestly say I was truly present. Last year (my first year of recovery), I was still shakin and bakin..BUT sober. Man, the colors were so vibrant!

[clean42day]

2. Whether you believe you can, or you believe you can't, you're right.

3. If you don't know what to believe, you might as well believe something that works for you.

Thank you - the power of our belief systems is what works for us.

and when it doesn't - the beauty of that is - we "get to" change them - if and when we want to. :29:

[Ortho]

Nice! So if you really had a choice, which would you prefer:

A) Be able to drink responsibly, without putting anyone at risk.

B) Continue to abstain from alcohol, and not even take a risk.

Where are you at with this today? Is drinking responsibly something you might want to be able to accomplish? Or are you happy with the path you're on?

It's totally up to you!

Well, right now, I'm just content with not drinking. I mentioned in another fourm that I had friends in town over 4th of July weekend. I did have a few drinks with them, but I never began drinking until we were back from the bars/restaurants and at my place. Since they left I haven't had anything to drink other than one beer with a coworker of mine. That was over a week ago. In the past three weeks, all but four days have been without alcohol, and on the days I did drink it was substantially less than what I had been doing before.

Having said that, I'm really not missing it all that much...at least not yet. I have some leftover beers in my fridge from that weekend and they're just sitting there waiting for someone to claim them. At times I feel that a drink would feel great/taste great, but at the same time I take more satisfaction in just doing without. I'm too concerned about putting myself in situations similiar to what Clean42day referenced.

[alcoholrehabcoach]

...At times I feel that a drink would feel great/taste great, but at the same time I take more satisfaction in just doing without.

Sounds like real progress, Ortho. And I'm curious...

What is it about "doing without" that is now giving you more satisfaction than having a drink?

In other words, what is now becoming more important to you than drinking?

Any ideas?

[Ortho]

I feel like I have a lot more energy now when I'm not drinking. I also feel more clear-headed. However, the biggest thing, as strange as it sounds, is that I get a sense of accomplishment.

On top of that, I feel miserable after I do drink. I drank again on Saturday with some friends, and again, once I started I didn't want to stop. The next day I felt as if I had let myself down, and I still feel that way today.

It's almost as if now it's not so much that I feel good about not drinking. I just feel bad about it when I do drink, at least that's how it's been on few occassions when I have drank over the past month.

Again, I said this before, but I feel my issue is a social one. I don't have a physical craving. I'm just struggling giving up the social aspect of it. I don't know hardly anyone that doesn't drink socially, and the people that I do know I'm not accustomed to spending a lot of time with. Being around them when they're drinking makes it harder for me to not do it myself. Tonight, I'm by myself, and I know I'm not going to drink. In two weeks when I go on vacation, it won't be so easy.

Ortho

[sioux]

I know that when I entered the phase of my life that I was monitoring my drinking, not drinking, how others drank, anticipated social situations where drinking may come up, not taking a vacation, marking off the days on the calendar so I could feel better about the bitter disappointment in myself emotionally and physically from having succumbed, ate before I drank to fill up in advance, drank only wine and not the hard stuff..I had crossed that threshold of obsessive thinking about alcohol.

This went on for years before the physical cravings became noticible. I was face down in my counselors waiting area trying to figure out what the heck my problem with life was at the time. She was the best co-dependent money receiving counselor a gal could ever ask for too....I knew then, deep inside what I know today.

People that don't have drinkning problems don't post on internets or talk to counselors about their drinking. It's a non-issue.

Of course the great relief in deciding if I was an alcoholic was that I got to make that decision alone.

[alcoholrehabcoach]

People that don't have drinking problems don't post on internets or talk to counselors about their drinking. It's a non-issue.

Exactly.

Just like non-smokers don't count the number of days since their last cigarette. It's a non-issue.

And guess what happens the more and more we focus on something? The more and more we'll see of it showing up all around us.

That's not an excuse to deny that there's a problem, rather it's an invitation to focus on the solution, and leave the problem behind.

A question I always like to ask is "What are the benefits of your unwanted behavior?" In other words, what is your drinking giving you on the upside? What is it giving you that you like?

This is critical to understand, because once you have a better idea of what your target is, or more precisely, what it is you really want to feel, then at last you are free to explore healthier ways of getting those feelings you desire.

Great post, Sioux

[BIG AL]

Just when I think you are in left feild Mike your thing comes together and you make a whole lot of sense Mike.But then again I think I know it all.:mrgreen:

[Rockin Big Daddy]

:16:My knuckles would be "white" with this thinking.

[alcoholrehabcoach]

:16:My knuckles would be "white" with this thinking.

Why? What does this kind of thinking mean to you?

[DaveH]

I agree with Rockin Big Daddy, especially the first year or two of sobriety. Trying to sort out that question would have been at best difficult, and would have had the potential to cause the paralysis of analysis to set in. And I would have pondered that deep question along with all of the others from atop a bar stool. That was my style. "Stinkin Thinkin" was all I was capable of when I entered the rooms of AA.
Some years later I can easily answer the question though. There were no longer any benefits to my drinking, no upside. If any had remained, they would have only delayed me coming into the rooms of recovery. If it had still worked I would have continued. The insanity of the disease is that we continue so long after it stops working. I am grateful I had a sponser who told me that early in my recovery I had to focus on doings things(the steps) rather than thinking about them. That seemed to be the solution for me.
Regards,
DaveH

[BIG AL]

:cool::cool:I think those questions are exactly what we ask ourselves when we first sober up.Wayin our options what are we getting from this behavior.Do I have aything to gain other than death.To me these questions are the first step.YOu must first know the problem before you can fix things.If you dont know what the problem how can you fix it.I can tell you there wa no upside to my drinking I gained nothing thi is why I so wanted t get away from it.What am I gainig from my unwanted behavior(drinking).I want to live.If I would of waited for yrs to answer this question I would of probably drank myself to death.

[skyhook]

Please pardon the following thoughts of generalization...no offense intended.

Many of us began (i would venture to say the majority) at young, impressionable ages to subdue the natural and vulnerable feelings of inadequacy associated with youth and young adulthood. We didn't know any better so we framed it as "partying, recreational or having a good time", all the while stunting and regressing natural emotional growth through altering our normal mental process. Our prize was fitting in with the likeminded of our youth, having a twisted sense of family, loyalty,comraderie, etc...

As we grew older, and our responsiblilties grew, we found ourselves unequipped to participate in rational reasoning, we knew somehow we had "missed the starting gun" (thank you pink floyd). We have legitimate needs as adults, but we relied on meeting them in illegitimate ways, because our minds were now turned over, enslaved to an enemy who knew no mercy. Any thought of a prize, or payoff had long since left (with our reason in tow) as we were left with instinct and fear to light our path. Our opposable thumbs, the last remnant of anythng that sets us a part from the wild, were reduced to accomodating extensions of our medications of choice.

The names are changed, but many of the stories remain the same, and one is left to wonder, why does one person hit bottom and begin to look up for a way out,,,,while another will continue to find the basements...basement?

I thank God, that for me, it was I had finally found the limit to my pain threshold. A low pain threshold is a blessing...a high pain threshold continues to falsely encourage bravado, relentless deception and reconciling of denial.

I think once a person hits that personal pain wall...it is far easier for them to proceed into the unknown realm of recovery process. It gives them the ability to stand with courage, in the face of nothingness for that season of renewing ones mind, will and emotions; listening for their spirit man like never before. We really don't understand where we are heading, but we have a distinct and sharp recollection of what retreat means...

Recovery, for me, took standing in the nothingness of the aftermath for an extended season, long before any understanding came of what my warped prizes were for my previous coping mechanism of self medication. Understanding the dynamics of abusive behavior requires a reasoning mind and this mind is found in the season of transition. Its the "dumb tax" I had to pay to get my mind back...it took time.

I encourage others not to ignore their pain threshold. Sometimes it really is the last call.

[alcoholrehabcoach]

Understanding the dynamics of abusive behavior requires a reasoning mind and this mind is found in the season of transition. Its the "dumb tax" I had to pay to get my mind back...it took time.


Sky,

Very nicely put, and congratulations on getting your mind back!

Michael

[alcoholrehabcoach]

Friends,

Don't be fooled. And don't be afraid of your reasoning mind.

It was your mind that got you into this mess, it's your mind that can get you out.

That is, unless you would rather be a victim. Unless you would rather always be a slave to your own mental impulses.

There was, and most likely still is, some benefit you sought from drinking. Some unmet need or some kind of emotional, perhaps even spiritual thirst that was not being quenched for you in any other way.

Until our needs are met, they will continue to drive our behavior.

The moment I realized that drinking gave me a sense of confidence in myself, that was the moment I became free to find healthier ways of getting the feelings that I needed.

Don't be afraid to see the truth of what your drinking is giving you on the upside, because I promise you, if those needs are not being met consciously, you will continue to seek them unconsciously.