"The Disease"

[sioux]

I don't know that what I have to say will change any minds out there, but I had a hard time understanding the "disease" aspect of alcoholism for a few years into recovery. It wasn't until a succession of friends with very long term sobriety, and what I had called good recovery at that time, had blown their heads off. So I guess what I am saying is that suicide is definately a behaviorial action/malfunction that resulted from this disease. For whatever reason they couldn't do one more day. It doesn't get easier that's something I can attest to. It's not like it is harder either, but staying sober and doing the recovery thing takes a lot of perseverance on my part.

I can share with you that while active in my disease, if given the choice, I would take booze over you, kids, job, anything else. I was obsessed beyond what others would call normalicy. It wasn't like there was a big sale at Macy's....that's not the way I thought or reacted. I'd live anywhere and on anyone's dime for a drink. Faye Dunaway in Barfly says it best...."I go with the person who has the bottle." Paying taxes is not part of that equation.

I was told out the gate that having been restored to sanity I would have to do sane things, like pay my bills on time and be self supporting through my own contributions, and not expect favors for being alcoholic either. I have to agree I hear some really ridicilious things in meetings that I scoff at. For instance, a gal with two years said in a meeting awhile ago that she only stole three of the six things she meant to grab from a retailer and called that progress not perfection. I called it theft, and when she challenged me, I challenged her to take the stuff back and make a confession. I mean, I could drink over bs like that. Not just the theft, but the sick rationalization and sick sense of entitlement that so many of us possess.

And with this kind of confrontation for me comes accountability. I am not one that is going to sit in a meeting and go along with the affairs, the theft, the general bs that I hear at times. I didn't get away with that stuff in my early days because someone cared enough about me to say hey Sioux, what the f are you doing? You are giving us a bad name....we are here to recover our lives, our sanity, and fit in by being maximum service to ourselves, to others, and our society, which by the way includes the AA socity.

Blessings for another hopeful day...Sioux

[fredos417]

One of the difficulties in recognizing alcoholism as a disease is it just plain doesn't seem like one. It doesn't look, sound, smell and it certainly doesn't act like a disease. To make matters worse, generally it denies it exists and resists treatment.

Alcoholism has been recognized for many years by professional medical organizations as a primary, chronic, progressive and sometimes fatal disease. The National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence offers a detailed and complete definition of alcoholism, but probably the most simple way to describe it is "a mental obsession that causes a physical compulsion to drink."

[Rocket2d4]

errr...most poeple were told drinking alcohol and taking
drugs kills freaken brain cells or turns your brain into
moosh as a child.

Drain Bramage probably...In the frontal lob and other
parts of the brain. You can do serch on the brain.

well...if you attend enough meetings eventaully you'll hear
people say remove alcohol of an A-hole there remains the
A-hole.

If you read enough AA literature you'll know it gose
into depth about behavior patterns and the ISM.
Something in the order of "above all else we must rid
of our selfishness or it kills us....god allows it"

People that lives in denial have selective thinking,
reading or awareness.

You know how it is when you were living in denial yourself being a prick deverting blame becuase you didn't want to clean up your mess or pay the pipper (consequence)

There's drugs, gambling, over eating and all kinds
of stuff mention in the AA bigbook.

it dose say half measure avail us nothing dosn't it?
What dose that mean to you?
Millions of AAers trading in thier bar stool for a casino stool.lmao

I recently spoke to a friend..She deviorded her AA nazi husband.
Him attending meetings , hanging out in AA fellowshiping all
the day and night was the same for her...He was never home
to be a husband and father. It has the same result to her as him
going to the bar or happy hours all the time..lol
If nothing changes...nothing changes.
Using AA to escape from taking care of his responsibilties.
Evidently he didn't read the chapter that say to apply the
12 steps under your own roof first.lol

DIS-EASE...the pain, hurt and suffering spread like
a disease.

The manipulations, mind games, abuse, A type personallity, Passive agressive, manic depressive,
Bi polar disorder, narsisis, lying, cheating, stealing...etc (DRAMMA and TURAMA)

You know how to identify an alki???
It's when everyone around him is going crazy or have PTSD.lmao
See..the alcoholic dosn't give a rats ass what pain
and suffering he/she cuase others becuase he/she is
a freaken NUMB skull.

Well...you can read the big book.
It gose something like this...
Ma..ma,..look at me I'm sober now and why the hell
are you so sad? WTF happen to the barn?

A jurgernant is a word use to discribe an alki in the AA
big book...A Jurgernant is a power froce that distroys
everything in it's path.lmao

Or you can read step 1 the 12 and 12..
Straight up..."MAKE IT RIGHT"
and an alki won't do that unless his/her life depens on it...

and of course most alki wanna really check out (sueicide)
when the **** hits the fan(hit bottom)...Totally escaping at the core.

People get all retarded about working step #4...
well if you read and work step #6...
It dose say..that's what saperates the men from the boys
or women from little girls...

In other words...giving up being a prick and an A hole too...lmao
Are ya ready ??? Entirely ready?.lol
AA= Action Action. Faith without works is dead.
Stop whining, Clean up your freaken mess and play nice.
What delusions are you still holding on to..what are you afriad of?

It's not that complicated. You don't have to be a Saint to do these
things or figure it out.lol

[skyhook]

The disease of alcoholism means the mental obsession with and the physical craving for alcohol, right? Can anyone tell me why I always hear people attributing their misbehavior to the disease of alcoholism? I mean, it sounds like a deflection of personal responsibility to say that your failure to pay taxes, or whatever, is symptomatic of alcoholism. I also think that confuses people, in the sense that it makes shortcomings common to all humans look like traits that are exaggerated in alcoholics. Which they are not, not necessarily.

Someone tried to explain this to me by telling me that disease can simply mean "a state of being ill at ease." But this just seems like semantics to me. Can anyone really explain all this?

I remember much of the process of getting clean, but considering whether or not I had a disease was not even remotely part of the process, nor would it have mattered if I was aware, one way or the other. People have been getting clean or sober, long before the AMA lined their pockets by labeling it a disease.

I do know that the treatment sectors of corporate america and others make huge jack $$ calling it a disease... with no cure. I also know that the flexability of multi higher powers is one thing, but the question of disease becomes a holy graille in certain circles.

I also know of many who are free from their addiction. Knowing this makes it hard to swallow a view that speaks of bondage for life. But thats just my opinion and experience.

Our addictions are strong and they can't be taken lightly. Their will be a price to pay to be free, but Corporations, groups and people make money by perpetuating and extending it into something bigger. Its a recession proof industry as long as we keep drinking the punch.

I know what some of you are thinking and I can't even see your "red punch moustaches". :cool:

[Craig A.]

My sponsor told me in the beginning that drinking/drugging ( whatever that addiction is/was ), was nothing more than a symptom of my behavior/action! So alcoholism means more than drinking what was causing me to drink which in turn help me destroy my life and anybody who was close to me! I also have a hard time with the word "disease" but words are words, if you understand the meaning behind it the words are not that important, the disease of alcoholism is more about the person than the drink. We may have caused havoc while we were drunk and yes when we were not drinking too but what caused us to cause havoc, everybody does it for a different reason. When you work the steps you start to see the core reasons then you can do something about it. I needed alot of love/patience from people because I had none especially for myself, with the help from the fellowship, the steps, and the most important a Higher Power I am able to live healthier one day at a time! Take care and stick around till the miracle happens!!!

[zoomie]

Baaaaaaaaaaa

[skyhook]

Posing a question to prop up your own answers is a bit like pulling the wool over your eyes and then wondering where the shepherd went.

Good luck with that.

[Rocket2d4]

Err..of course nothing satified me.
1000 wasn't enough...lol

mmmm..dose it matter what people term it or classify
it? People had to term it something to identify it.

If a person drinks alcohol and it cause alot of distructions
and havic in one's life, what dose it matter?
A person can still mess up thier lives without drinking
or using. Drugs and alcohol adds more fuel to the fire.
Everybody knows people don't make the best of decisions
under the influence of drugs or alcohol. And a lot of
people are way out of control when using it.
They spend most of thier lives trying to manage it
on an endless treadmill just to catch a buzzzzz and
whatever unnesscary consequence that comes with
the territory. It gets worst and worst for most people.
There has to be more to life than just catching a buzzzzz.
I like to party hardy and get freaken loaded out of
my freaken mind just like the next guy...

The prices got really, really high...I lost my wife,kid and
me at the age of 22 and i still kept on going and dug
a deeper hole for myself. Go as low as you wanna go,
Nobody was going to stop me even if they tried.
Err...old fart told me they spelt more than i drank...
I'm not a real alki..lmao
That's was nice...i didn't care. My bottom totally
sucked ass. That's my expert opinion.lol

Yeap..it totally sucked ass. I ran out of my E ticket ride.
I got pickled at a very young age..

You can focus on the problems and spin your wheels
until the cow comes home...(never)

Or you get into the salutions. The 12 step is a living
program..not a how to stop using program.

The only person that calls me an alcoholic or addict
is me...lmao

[Craig A.]

A.A. is not the only way to sobriety but it has set me free! Find a way that works for you and stay sober, if you can't stay sober then maybe you are ready for A.A. and the steps! Good luck and God Bless!!!

[BIG AL]

Originally Posted by nilesaustvold
Wow, no satisfactory answers. I don't know what I was expecting.

I know what you were expecting.You were xpectting everyone to agree with you and say how right you were and when noone did you insulted them.Your EGO was smashed.Happens to me all the time.

[clean42day]

((((((Zoomie)))))) you qwack me up :lol: i just might giggle all day now.....:11:

[clean42day]

My ego triumphs... But yeah, are you guys afraid to challenge authority or what?

Truly if you think recovery is about who's ego is bigger - I am going to pray for you. :195:

some people are actually here to save their life :21:not play games.

some of your responses are rather humorous though.....:5:

welcome to the greatest show on earth. :D

light and love

Gail

[Honey Barbara]

Cute little party slogans - wow did you even bother to read this stuff? These people are amazing and they are sober. They shared a lot more than cute party slogans with you on this thread. Are you sober? serious? You may want to consider support. I imagine you suffer from grandiose narcissism, we're here to support anyone but if you come in with guns blazing it does make it a tad difficult.
Take what you want and leave the rest, if you don't get what you are looking for move on, Please don't come to this site, do a big fart and leave us with the smell. You may also want to consider an apology.

Love Honey Barbxxxxxx

[clean42day]

nilesaustvold:

contempt prior to investigation is nothing new. there is a name for that kind of attitude in recovery - simply having a closed mind that will not allow any new information in........some people actually die that way. I hope you are not one of them.

I am sure if you ask enough people - you will find exactly what you need to validate your postion.

one of the benefits of having a good recovery program is not to take anything personally.

happy trails fellow traveler and I hope you find what you are looking for.

light and love

gail

[Tom1]

Friend, I unfortunately have no cute slogans to offer.I can only tell you that the charachter traits, both good and bad, that develop in alcoholics (or are they present first, predisposing to alcoholism) are present in other disease as well. Just 2 examples, fibromyalgia and irritable bowel syndrome come immediately to mind. These people truly suffer from their disease despite a complete lack of any pyssical or lab abnormalities to be found anywhere. They are both diseaes of "exclusion", meaning we couldn't find anything but now have a "label" for them so everyone is happy (doctors, patients, ins companies, etc..) We can now have fund raising walks, etc.. for these diseases that really don't exist except for man made "criteria".And yes, even in reg medicine there are many who even say fibro doesn't exist despite the havock, pain, disability, family trouble this causes.Both of the above mentioned examples tend to co exist with mental illneses ranging from depression to bipolar and others.What do we do with this info? Write every fibro pt off as "weak and crazy"(although SOME clearly are, many are not)The mind/ body are too closely connected to simplify diseases as just character weaknesses or "lack of personal responsibility", I do not have the answers, guys with more degrees than me don't have the answers, and i am sure no one on this forum as an answer for you.What this forum shares is worth more than all of our studies; personal experiences.Please try your best to gleam from the stories that which can help you and humble yourself to the fact that there are things we don't have to agree with (alcoholism, gambling, fibromyalgia are not real diseaes) and discover what category YOU fit in (physical illness, spiritual weakness, charachter defect, etc..)and work on that category, God bless you my friend, Tom

[TaylorLeigh]

I have a...mmm disorder that most people here don't need to know about (very private) but it was diagnosed by my girly MD and it is a physical result of something completely mental, diagnosed by an MD that is NOT a psychiatrist. I'd never go to a psychiatrist. Anyway, in this case, my mind does something that physically, I'm not aware of and can't control. They say it could be a result of abuse, either repressed physical or emotional or just guilt in general. I see that as something like alcoholism though in the case above, no substance is used but similarly, I can't personally identify a cause necessarily.

My husband is NOT happy that I refuse counseling for this issue but it's just me. I have a VERY difficult time accepting help and I'm stubborn ;) So sue me!