Everything Does Not Happen For A Reason

[Rocket2d4]

The quote of " nothing absolutely nothing happens by mistake in god's world"
is from the chapter " Doctor Addict or Acceptence is the Answer".
It's from the famouse page 449 readings (depending what edition).

It's a program of suggestions. AA states, AA knows very little and AA dosn't
have the conner on the market to god or recovery.

I belive it's very healthy that a person should belive/not beive or come to one's conclusion.
This is what separate AA from a CULT of personalities.....
Share thier experince, strenth and hope...that's about all any recoverying alcoholic can do.
"A GOD OF MY UNDRESTANDING"...Errr, excuss my french but IDK WTF BW, Dr. Bob
or the other Dr. is personally and beats the hell out of me how they understand GOD.
They are just men and another recovery alcoholic like I am.
They bleed just like me. There's no big I and little U in AA. (this includes Bill Wilson).

I'm am however grateful for these men. They have pave A way for people like me.
There are many, many wisdom and salutions in the AA Big Book....that I can apply to my own life.
As there are many lesson in the Bibble or other religions that I can apply to my own life.
It's easier for me to comprehend the lessons from the AA Book becuase I have a mind of an alcoholic..lmao

I'm a GENIOUS.lol....A wise man might learn from his own mistakes. A genious learn from other people's mistakes.

It's okay for you not to belive in whAtever anyone say.
That's where I'm at or some spritual teaching that I've came across recently.

"LISTEN BUT DON'T BELIVE IN ANYONE. DON"T EVEN BELIVE IN WHAT YOU THINK"

The principle is to learn how to break out of our old thinking patterns
and also an acknowlegement that one is a child of god no more or no less than anyone else.
It pretty much say the samething in Chapter 16 Acceptence is the answer.

It gose hand in hand with step 7 and tradition #7.
AA has shown us A way...AA is an ENTITY, FREE, SELF SUPPORTING.
AA dose not depends or LEAN on other PEOPLE, PLACE and THINGS to stand on it's own 2 feet or happiness...
Apply these same principles on a personal level.

It might seem odd at first to some people...
Somewhere alone the line in my recovery...I called people and no one answered.lol
I went to meetings, picked up more resentments or listen to people argu..lmao
Unltimatley...I learned how not to totally lean on AA (place with poeple and things) for my happiness
or to solve my problems for me...The lesson were there if I stay openminded.
I had to turn to a god of my understand and ask for help.
I had to look within myself for salutions to my problems becuase my HP had granted
me the ablities to solve my challenges and take care of my responsiblities.
No one can fix me but me....I had to get right with myself and my GOD before I can
get right with others. I am free to come and go as I please in AA...
The freedom had been granted to me. I do not have to belive in what others belive in
just to fit it or get accepted..(Old behavior patterns of doing things that I don't beliving
in just to fit in got me in a lot, a lot of trouble.lol)
I don't have to be a doormate or gravle for anyone.

The way I process such quote now is. IT IS WHAT IT IS. LIFE HAPPENS.
I'M POWERLESS OVER PEOPLE PLACES AND THINGS.
Having an alcoholic mind that tends to obessed ,control things, worry or react in unhealthy manners,
these are great living tools to have if I apply it in an appropriate manner.
In so many ways the message I get is ...LET GO
I can only change myself and no one else...
Bascailly the serenity prayer.. ( I can keep it simple like that.lol)
In other words...no one is put on this planet to please me, agree with me or make my life eaier.
It can be a very harsh lesson to grasp sometimes (tough love).
Somewhere alone the line people stopped enabling me and allow me to grow the F UP.
My sponsors never gave me answers or told me what to belive or not belive...
He allowed me to sit in my own ****. He allowed me to make mistakes and learn from them.
He allowed me to find my own salutions to my problems or challeges.
Once I grasp this lesson for myself....I can do the LIVE AND LET LIVE.

There are many salutions written in the 12 and 12 in step #10 pretending to this.
Somewhere alone the line of ...people are going to do the best that they can depending
on thier level of awarness at any given moment.
In the AA BIG BOOK..it states "above all else we must rid of our self-fishness or it KILLS US,..GOD ALLOWS IT"

Well...if humans are hurting and killing ourselve on a global level..GOD ALLOWS IT.

My intruputations of that is..."It's really non of my bussiness what other people belive or not belive" and it's okay.
By the same tokken no one is going to beat thier concept or belief into me either.
Depending on the personality or indiviual..I don't really have a problem with tellin certain people to F-OFF,
becuase some people just won't stop with thier control issues or trying to convert me.lmao
Screw all that guilt and shame and force feeding me crap. That's yesterday news or old crap that made me sick.
They have the rights to be wrong...I have the rights to tell them to F-OFF.lmao
I'm have boundaries or can stay open with filters...

A little old lady gave me this tool when some old timers used to conner me and thump the AA BOOK on ma..
" THANK YOU FOR CARING AND SCREW YOU FOR SHARING".lmao
I'm glad god sent her into my life at that moment..becuase i was getting ready to run for the hills away from AA.lol

You know...
"take what you want and leave the rest"
"do what works for you"

mmm...I personally stand up while I am praying. ( alot of people disagree with this...oh well.)
A god of my understanding say..."Stand up, be a man and hold your head up high" It is very, very humbling for me....

[skyhook]

.
I don't believe that God gave us intelligence and personality and intuitive minds if God didn't intend for us to use them. It's my belief that God would like us (eg. Humanity) to fix our problems ourselves - and God will always be around to guide us if we are willing and humble enough to listen.

What reason would God have considered in allowing mankind to choose between good and evil via free will ?

Would His reason not count, in the everything (does or does not) happen for a reason discussion ?

Is God, who created reason, now somehow deficient, exempt or otherwise now excluded in this fundamental issue of the human experience ?

[skyhook]

"...The politician who chooses to divert money from a school into his own pocket does so out of greed. A choice she/he made themself; not because God decided that she/he should do so or that the school should lose money".

Greed is a reason.

The fact he chose to meet a legitimate need (provision) in a illegitimate way, in no way insinuates he had no reason for doing so. His reason compelled him to act. It may not be a choice you or I would make, but who are we to judge his reason. We can judge the fruit of his decision and how it manifested, but judging the motives of his heart is the domain of God.

I often tell my adult kids who are slow in getting educated in facing this world, that the criminals who break into houses are more than likely simply meeting a need for provision. The simply have no other apparent means to meet that need. At least, in their estimation and process of applying all the reason they can muster to compel them to act.

Seems to me, the root question you are struggling with is , "Why would God allow these things ?", which is the harder question to answer.

[skyhook]

I think that God allows all things to happen because God has given us free will and wants us to make the right choice. Simple as that.


Thanks for your thread, I can tell you have put alot of thought into your theories and I appreciate the opportunity to discuss them with my beliefs. I shoot from the hip based on my own experiences so if I appear not as well versed in religion as you, its is probably the case.... because it never worked for me, but I enjoy the discussion, just the same. Its one I have had many times and never find it boring and I think its perfectly ok, to agree to disagree, but lets find common ground as well ?

BTW, I think one mans strawman is anothers analogy, so here's some thoughts:

We agree that God gave us all free will.

We agree that Gods holiness and purposes for designing us in the way he has is something beyond our comprehension.

We agree that He knows the future.

Question: Could you elaborate on the right choice and what that might be ?

Thanks for the vine.

[skyhook]

Why would God allow humanity to choose between good & evil via free will?Simply put: so we could choose to follow a spiritual path or reject it. Without a choice, everything we do is meaningless - we would be robots.

There are some "spiritual paths" that involve heinous, barbaric ritual that dehumanize people, all over the world.

Are we excluding those from your comment above ?

[skyhook]

What I am saying is that, reguardless of the person motivations, the action is the personal choice of the person who makes it - not God forcing that person to act in a deliberate immoral way.

Correct, God does not impose his will on our life.

But reason does relate to justification for an act, so the two cannot be seperated. We can agree that some justifications are sick or warped, but there are reasons for these choices, none the less.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/reason

[skyhook]

I guess the real question might be:

"Whose reason is justified (comprehendable) and whose reason is rejected (uncomprehendable)...and who gets to distinguish one from the other, given our (humanities) diversity in faith, culture, experience, education, provision, etc...?"

I love this stuff !!!

[skyhook]

Quote:
I often tell my adult kids who are slow in getting educated in facing this world, that the criminals who break into houses are more than likely simply meeting a need for provision. They simply have no other apparent means to meet that need. At least, in their estimation and process of applying all the reason they can muster to compel them to act.

I have no idea what you're talking about in this example.

Everybody has a God given right to their reasons. The consequences are what everyone haggles about.

[Rocket2d4]

well...god allowed me to get drunk/high and ran it into the ground and hurted a lot
of people I love in the process.

That's my experince. That's my truth. That's my awarness.

God is nuetrual. God dosn't judge. God dosn't discriminate.
That power and connection is availiable to all.
Wheather I as a human being use that power for good/contructive or ill..is of my own
making and creation.

I can make my own hell...(thank you very much) I don't need Donte or anyone
else to intrupret that for me...

Surely if I can destroy my own life...(it dose take a bit of work to mess up my life,
it didn't happened over night. I went to a lot of length to chase dope no matter what)
I've also been granted the power to make my life better or correct it. That's probably
not going to happen overnite either.

The world didn't force a drink into my month. The world didn't froced me to use.
That was my chioce...I made those chioces. The rest of the world wasn't destructive
like I was...

Errr...My responsiblities. I can't blame the world and I can't change the world.
The rest of the people on this planet have freedom too...whatever chioces
people will make...

Well...let there be peace on earth and let it begin with me.
How in heck am I going to change the world if I can't change myself or help myself?

Poeple had reach out to me and tried to make me change when I was drinking and using.
Well...no one was able to stopped me...I had to come to my own conclusion or
had suffered enough...(in that light I decided to grow the F-up and CHANAGE.
That's the truth....The world couldn't change me nor save me.
So how in the heck am I going to save the world? lol
The law of the universe works the same for everyone.

Well, if a part of the human race needs to go through whatever the heck the world
needs to go through so it can grow the f-up...I shouldn't get in the way of that mirracle.
Whatever the hell reasons people wants to fight about is whatever reasons..lol

I just need to stay the heck out of the way and staY the hell away from that.
I don't need to put myself in harms way anymore....

I chose this today. I chose peace and love in my life today. I siezed fighting today.
It is my reasons and that's good enough for me today.
I'm good enough as I AM today..I don't NEED anyone's approval and It's OKAY.
When I chose to grow more, be more aware, awaken more...That too is my chioces..
FREEDOM...that's at the pinicle of the AA/NA symbol.

[Rocket2d4]

well, I don't take it lightly when people say "Everything happens for a reason
and it's god's will"

My step duaghter had been reaching out to me.
Her reason is that she feels, she can trust me.
or learn how to trust the human race in general.
She's been opening up a little bit at a time becuase I listen to her
actually listen to her.And she feels that I understand her.

So when my daughter tells me that she been rapped and she has a difficult
time with life in general....beliving, trusting, and just wanting to live.
Surely , it's not god's will for her to get rapped..
And she blames herself for being rapped becuase of all the guilt , shame
and confussions that cames with that.
Surely it's not god's will for her to self dystructed just becuase she didn't
know how to process or cope with being rapped.
Suely I'm not going to tell her she putted herself in the possition to get hurt.
That's the guilt and shame she's been carrying...She told me that herself.
She blames herself for being rapped.
She turns everything inward.

She's been struggling with her addictions becuase she couldn't cope.
She has chosen to get clean and it has been very painful for her becuase
al of that **** turamatized the hell out of her.
I also know I can't fix her. I can't force recovery into her.
I'm proud of her for being as strong as she is.
And I can't force her to beliving in a GOD or HP at the moment..
I can't tell her there's a god that dose **** for reasons and one of the reasons
is her getting rapped. I can't even mention god, spiritaulity or any of that to
her....

I also know in recovery these are some of the issues some people
have to face and work thorugh.

I love her very much. I tell her that all the time. I try to pass on
some living tools and copping skills to her without AA/NA/GOD over tone.