Anyone completely cut contact with parents-permanent or temporary?

[blessed2be]

Hi all,

Having a tough time today. Today is my Mom's birthday. She is an alcoholic (as well as my Dad) and of course, she is in denial. I cut contact with her and my Dad (who was also physically abusive to me and Mom) after a horrendous Christmas with them. We have 3 small kids and made the decision to stay away to protect our children. After growing up in such a violent home, I went on to somehow marry a normal, wonderful man.

I haven't talked to my Mom since Dec. 28th. I knew it would be difficult to walk away. I have been going to Al-Anon for the last two weeks (have been to 5 meetings so far). The meetings have completely been my strength. Unfortunately I can't make any meetings today, but still needed to vent. I am working really hard on not focusing on them, but on me. I don't want to contact my Mom. She blames me for everything wrong. I feel she needs to realize that because of their alcoholism, they will lose us unless something changes. I know I can't change them. It took a long time, but I realize that now. I guess I am going through the sort of "grief/loss" period that members of Al-Anon said I would go through. Knowing it was coming doesn't make experiencing it that much easier! The most difficult thing to deal with is that I am an only child. They had one chance and they blew it. I know I have a wonderful family now and that we can make our own great memories. I guess I am just disgusted that I had to walk away at all. None of this should have ever happened.

I have been getting so much support from the meetings and the boards that I visit. I am trying to read more to understand more. I guess I feel the need to ask the question, "Did anyone out there completely detach themselves from their parents?". What made you make the decision? Was it forever? If not forever, how did it happen that you were on speaking terms again? How can you just detach and still have a relationship with the person?

I am not looking for someone to tell me what to do. I would just like to read someone else's experience so that I may "take what I like and leave the rest". Thanks!

[fibiray]

Hi there can so relate to your story. I had a father who was alcoholic who died in 2000 from Korsekoffs and that was the easy part. Mother was a psychopath, brother was violent and a sister who is emotionally dead. I had no choice but to sever the ties with them not only because I wanted to protect my son but to protect myself. This still didn't prevent me from being abused in other ways but at least it cushioned me from the emotional reaction. The best thing I did was to get these people out of my life because they would have only brought me down. I have come to understand that when it comes to my family they are sick and everything they dished out to me was a reflection of what they had either experienced themselves or felt about themselves. It was their stuff and not mine and I had no business taking it on. It is not personal they simply don't know how to deal with things and it is easier for them to play the blame game rather than take responsibility for themselves. It is hard to forgive and get past the resentment but not unachievable neither. It is a journey and a process. Keep coming back and sharing
god bless

fi
xxx

[blessed2be]

Fibiray...how did you go about the process? I guess I wonder if you tried many times or was it a "last straw" sort of situation? How long has it been? I know I am going through the worst part right now. Do you have contact with aunts, uncles, etc.? I hope you don't mind me asking questions. I have just been looking to identify with someone who had to do this and really would like to hear "how" they did it. I have contact with my mom's siblings (don't talk to my Dad's side of the family at all...they are all the same). The difficult part of contact with the siblings right now is that they only want to talk about my parents. So, I have stepped back a bit and they seem to be respecting my space. They are all ACOA's, but I love them and they were the ones that would "save" me as a child when my parents went wacky. I could never cut contact with them, but wonder if/how others don't have a relationship with their parents, but do still contact the rest of the family. It will be a challenging relationship for me since my entire family lives within 10 minutes from each other (in a different state...I live 5 hours away from all of them).

Hope I wasn't crossing the line with the questions and please don't answer if you don't want to.

Thanks for your reply!
Jennifer

[free2bunme]

Hi Jennifer -

I cut contact with my parents for almost a year when I was living in New York and they were in Georgia. That was 4 years ago and I was not in recovery. I also cut contact with them for about 2 months once i was in recovery, that was about 18 months ago. Now, because my attitude has changed so much through the steps, I am able to talk and spend time with them regularly with little to no bother. They are so desparate for intimacy (my brother rarely has anything to do with any of us) in spite of the fact that they can be selfish pushy pushers.

[blessed2be]

free2bunme...

Who made the first move once contact was resumed? Even in recovery, was it difficult to "start over" after all of the feelings you had toward your parents?

I have just begin al-anon and know I will learn so much to help me deal with all of this in the future, however, I am seeking those that are/have experiencing(ed) what I am going through now. In my meetings, I have heard stories that ACOA's just continue the relationship with their parents with better understanding and also heard the other extreme...being no contact at all ever again.

The best thing I know I can do is take it "Day by Day" and leave it all up to my HP. I have already decided that the ball is in my parents' court and I won't contact them. I feel they will hopefully contact me when they feel the time is right. If they never do, then my questions are answered.

Thanks for your post!

[sassyx9]

I had the similar story of childhood, an alcoholic father, drug-addict mother, and physical violence that goes with it. I had two sisters that also grew up with me, both older by 7 and 5 years. I started on my recovery during my teen years, and it has taken me over 20 years to complete the journey to where I am right now. I am still travelling that journey. I ended up cutting ties with my family several times before they finally cut ties with me. I tried to put up boundaries during my teens and early twenties, but for me, I put up too many at one time, and I didn't have the power yet to enforce them. In my late twenties, I started putting up boundaries, a few at a time, as I was capable of withstanding the pressures they put on me (and yes, there were several). Eventually, they cut ties with me. The final scene was when my eldest sister (who has been in and out of federal prison) and her boyfriend decided he should have the ability and permission to touch me any way he chose. When I said I would call his parole officer and send him back to prison, I found myself in a physical fight with my sister, who was upset that I should dare to call the cops on an ex-con. She cut ties with me then. My middle sister decided she could not stand to be around me because I was too controversial for her and the rest of the family. I refused to quit my job, and move in with her and our very emotionally abusive mother to take care of mom while the sister supported me. That would have been giving power back to her, instead of retaining it myself. We have not spoken in over 5 years. I have tried a few times, but it doesn't work.

I am successful, and my life is calm and tranquil. it is not an easy journey. You have to take your power back over your life, and stand your ground. Decide what is important to you, and what is not worth fighting over. And keep in mind, you want your control over your life, and they have the right to control their own lives and actions. You may have to go to counseling, you may have to talk to psychologists or psychiatrists, you may have to call the law in. It will not be an easy journey, but it is rewarding and the final results of you living your live in safety, harmony, and raising children who are secure and functional is worth it.

I have had to go to counseling constantly, I struggle with emotions and guilt, and I take long walks on the beach for meditation. But, my life is not chaos, my job is not in jeopardy, my retirement is intact, and best of all, I have my health and sanity and peace of mind. Clean and sober and not addicted to anything but life for over 15 years.

Don't give up on yourself. Whatever you do, don't give up on you. Depend on you, learn to keep your promises to yourself, count on yourself, and if you fall, don't wallow. Get up, dust the dirt off and keep on moving forward.

[kaistevens]

I'm Kai, I'm an alcoholic.

I have completely seperated myself from my blood family too. Yes, there was a grieving, I had to let go of what I wanted and needed them to be. Because, after all, that WAS what I was trying to hang on to. I did not, and still do not, need them in my life as they are today. So, it wasn't even Mom and Dad, that I was struggling to let go of, it was letting go of who I wanted them, expected they should, be.

When I first seperated, over a year ago, it was forever (my choice). I was angry, frustrated, hurt, disappointed, etc., and I never, never, never, wanted to ever try to talk to them again. That was perfectly okay, that is where I was at the time, that was the only way, the only tools, I had to protect myself at the time.

I've done a lot of growing and changing inside myself since then. I see them differently today, and feel differently about them. I've dealt with a lot of MY anger, seen a lot more of MY part in the many dramas of the past, I've found some forgiveness (of them and myself), I've found some acceptance about who they are and who I am. They have not changed, but my heart has. None of this has helped them any, because I can not help them, but it has revolutionized MY life.

What does the future hold for us? I can not possibly know. For myself, I know that I was not ready to change myself until I was ready. I'm sure, three years ago, anybody who looked at MY life, would probably say that I was hopeless and never going to change. I know that they are still doing what they have always done, but I don't know what's going on inside them. They might be just one step away from being ready to make a change in themselves, or they may never get to that place.

I would sometimes like to know how it will all turn out someday, I would like to know what the future holds. But, I have learned, that my Higher Power, in all his infinate wisdom, doesn't usually tell me the future for a very good reason. Cause I will for sure screw it up!

If he told me today, "On this day, next year, your father will show up at your house, with his hat in his hand, and a changed heart, and become the father you need him to be.", I would immediately start trying to 'help' God make that happen. I don't have to look back very far in my life to see how well I make things happen.

I just know that God will do whatever is best for me. I know WHATEVER he has planned will be just what I need. I know that what God DOES want me to do, what it is my responsibility to do, is to work on me and getting my life in line with him. And, who knows, maybe one day I will be the one God uses to reach one of my parents. As long as I am working on me, to get to the place where I am willing to do that, that is all God asks of me.

You made a change right after Christmas. Why? Because you were ready to make that change in your life. Their change will come in their life when they are ready.

I feel ya about the birthday thing too. My brother and sister had b-days in August, my parents anniversary was this month, and they both have b-days coming up after the first of the year. But, as for today, in this 24 hours, I don't call. Not because I have stopped loving them or I don't care anymore, but because their "sickness", is stronger than my recovery today. Because I can't be of any healthy use to myself, or to them, today. That could all change tomorrow, and if it does, I will be ready, because God will take care of it for me. And if it doesn't change tomorrow, I will still be okay.

I pray for them constantly. I pray God soften my heart towards them. I pray God put loving, gentle people in their life, to support them as they continue to face the consequences of their actions. I pray God help me find a healthy way to look at, and learn from, my past, and help me let go of the future and leave it in his hands.

The only thing in life that never changes, is that EVERYTHING... ALWAYS... CHANGES. So, don't get down or worried that this might be forever, cause you just never know. But, I promise, if you will just draw closer to God, and stay close to him, that whatever happens, will be okay.

Hang in there, and keep coming back.

Kai

[claude le gall]

I have cut all ties with my family a long time ago and it has been really really hard for a very long time. I am now 61 and I am reconsidering perhaps getting in touch with one of my sisters again. I might not have anything to lose now but I know that I will not relate to her in a dishonest way as I learnt to do in the family. I will not compromise with that. I suppose that if I just see them as ordinary people I may or may not like it then free me of the burden to have to relate to people with whom I have nothing in common . There are plenty of people who are worthy of our love so why forcing oneself to forgive or try a relationship that cannot work anyway. I don't personally believe that we have to forgive. Just let go is perhaps enough. But as someone said everything changes so that might too ! Claude.

[clean42day]

I have found that even though I had little contact with my family for over 14 years.....once I did resume a relationship with them - It was all about me applying what I had learned in recovery in the way of assertive/healthy boundaries that keeps me from being pulled back into the insantiy of the dysfunctional family dynamics.

At first my family wanted to keep treating me as the designated patient and keep me in the familiar scapegoat position because that is the only way they knew how to relate to me. Once they found out that I would not "own" that label anymore - they simply replaced me with my brother (the alcoholic) and he assumed that family role.

When my family found themselves on the other end of my healthy boundaries......they were forced to change the way they related to me and at first they didn't like it one bit. it upset the whole family dynamic......and my example forced a change in some areas - especially emotional manipulation......and didn't even make a dent in other ingrained behaviors.

What I have learned from all of my interactions with them is that I can keep myself safe and healthy even when they aren't aware of the dysfunction.

it is so diffiucult to be in a healthy relationship with them when none of them are willing to even address issues that need to be healed. But that doesn't mean it is impossible.....

mostly what my interactions with them teach me now - is how to forgive, tolerate, and accept them just the way they are....and to make sure that I am the one who owns the responsibilty to keep changing and growing into healthier ways to relate.

Sometimes I have to fogive them "for they know not what they do".

and give them and their healing over to God's care, and at the same time I pray he heal our relationships with eachother too.


light and love

Gail

[annalittlebit]

I tried to cut ties with my Dad although it was very difficult to do. He was alone after my Mom died, and eventually my sisters & I had gotten married, and moved away. He would always tell me when I left after visiting him " This is probably the last time you will ever see me alive" What a sad person he was. I'm fortunate in that the last time I saw him he had come to dinner at my house and was not drunk. I like remembering him that way. I wish I could remember my Mom the same way.

[trial'n'error]

I'm so glad to see this thread. If anyone recalls the thread I started just days before the database crash, my teenage daughter just had heart surgery, Mom and Dad came out to "help" and it was a huge disaster with unnecessary stress added by them and me realizing I'd been abused and neglected as a kid and have lied to myself my whole life about it. It was the first time I'd seen them in three years and God what an eye opener.

Since then I have been civil when Mom has called for updates (once per week) but every time we talk I am so triggered and basically break down that day, unable to be in the present moment, flooded with bad memories. Not to mention this is also not good for our recovering daughter nor her father. The worst part of it for me is that her father (now my husband) and I were estranged for most of our kid's younger years, and I made the mistake of raising her near my parents so they could "help", still blind to the realities of my family. Now to a lesser extent she has the same issues to deal with that I have, which I would not wish on anybody.

Needless to say every time Mom calls it tears me into rageful, dead little pieces. I don't know how to do it but I have to stop the contact. I've been civil to her and really not expressed anything. Although she's apologized with words like "I made lots of mistakes with you while you were growing up" and "we didn't really raise you kids, just warehoused you" it's like pretend insight and she has not changed in the least. She's still a rageful, manipulative bully. What's changed is that we are too big for her to hit, I guess. Dad is still wasted and lost all the time, emotionally dead. I know it's not their fault because they were both insanely abused as kids, but I that doesn't make it okay. I need to protect myself and my family.

I know I have to break ties at least so that I can recover, but I don't know how to do it. In my family my needs were not allowed to be expressed and nothing was done directly. I keep thinking I'll tell one of my brothers and let them explain... but that seems like repeating the old familiar bad patterns. how have you all done it, who have broken off communication? I don't think it will be forever, but I know it has to be now. I'm tired of being insane.

Sorry to lay this on a message board you guys, there is only one ACA meeting in town per week, and I missed this one because I hadn't slept during the previous three nights and was in no shape to drive. My therapist (whom I called right away for an appointment after Mom and Dad left) is on vacation until September. Our house is not peaceful and I think eliminating communication with Mom and Dad is crucial. Any thoughts on what to say or what to do? Just doing nothing (not answering the phone or returning calls) seems kinda rude, although what they did to (and failed to do for) me growing up was pretty rude too. Help.

[annalittlebit]

:42::195::42: Don't know what to say to you--My parents had both died long before I realized the damage that had been done--Thought the way we lived was "normal" You will be in my Prayers!!!

[treetop]

I moved away from my family about 17 years ago and have been able to heal. I go home to visit once a year during the fall and practice every skill and tool I have. I could not heal with all the insanity around me. I HAD TO MOVE!

[paulm]

man you put something infront of me I have been trying to iterate to someone. I know the damage done by my parents booze and infidelity issues. my **** is soo closely tied to theirs it's not funny. I recently had a visit with them and really found myself to feel invisible, Not that they excluded me, the Highly included me in everything, and they had an awesome time with my daughter. I wish only one of you knew How ironic that is, (Me have a daughter). anyway, I guess I was just numb to their emotions becuase I have a lot of resentment that I've carried for about 25-30 years and I'm 41. It's no wonder the only word I know right now is F@#!. I want to say it over and over and over again.... but I won't, at least not here... to whomever it was that started this thread, Thanks, (very sarcastic). I could Puke, It's like what Junkies explain as detoxing the way I feel right now, I whole entire head and body full of CRAP! **** this sucks.
--------sorry to dump

[paulm]

looks like I found another fellowship I may qualify for. Just what I need another epiphany.

[nobenzo]

our family (growing up) very dysfunctional. Maybe youve thought of this or not married, but my husband runs interference for me, has for years. When I was w/drawing from perscription meds felt sorry for me, but now that I am "me" again, rules have changed ughhhh! When I come to my end w/them, after many tries of normalcy, my husband sits down with them with OUR rules and things change. Right now we're drifting toward unorganized chaos (slowly) and Im trying to keep relations on up and up, but I get so tired. Seems like some game is always at hand with them and I try to figure out their expectation.

When we do have to have separations, its usually for few months and we resume only after my husband and I discuss and he feels as if its "safe" for us to talk. He requests that I stay surface with them as he may not have to get involved, but this never happens, so the cycle goes.

Separation is painful and uncomfortable at beginning, but as time passed I began to feel better, peaceful, and normal again.

Good luck, trust your instincts :)

blessings
amanda

[andre]

Most of the above sounds pretty familiar to me too.
I come from a very dysfunctional family and early this year I decided to cut ties with all of them including my grandmother. I also sent my mother a letter telling her exactly why I was doing it, detailing all the emotional abuse she's put me through. My mother gave me a birthday card to send to my grandmother and I wrote in it. 'Best wishes. I won't be coming to see you anymore because I don't appreciate you manipulating my young son with emotional blackmail or telling me you're going to kill yourself if I'm not there for you.'
I got several emails and letters asking me to apologize and I refused.
I still get regular requests to contact my grandmother, (who is 96) but I refuse.
I don't see how old age has any bearing on bad behaviour.
Eventually I got an email from my aunt saying that she wished she could tell my grandma exactly what she thought of her and I said 'well, now's your chance'
I dont need to go into the details of their abuse here because ultimately I know that this is about my healing, not theirs.
Bit by bit I'm letting some of them back into my life again but only on my terms.
They've spent the last 40 years messing with my head and now it's my turn to start creating my own life just the way I want it.
You have to do whatever feels right for you at the end of the day.
Good luck to you all. :smile:

[Red A.]

Great topic. Glad is was brought up. 18 years ago when I sobered up for the last time I walked out on all of them. I never intended to contact them again. A friend in the program talked me into giving them another chance. I'm paying for that right now. Last christmas my sister manufactured some of her best drama. My father was ready to go but it just fell flat when it was my turn to join in. Growth has it's priviledges. Anyway that drama isn't allowed in my life anymore. They are going to have to go. It sucks. It sure doesn't feel good. The fact of the matter is that I have worked my butt off to assemble a nice tranquil serene home for me and my life and no one has license to disrupt that.

[andre]

Just wanted to follow up from my last post.
I recently heard my grandma had been having dreams about all her dead friends coming to collect her.
After hearing that I decided I could at least say goodbye to her, so when she asked to speak to me on the phone last week I agreed.
Needless to say she continued in her usual abusive manner. I just said a few polite words and said goodbye.
I guess some people never learn.

[welshgirl]

Hi guys,

Have been reading through these posts and cant believe what I'm reading - I'm not alone!!
It was when I went to Uni that I realised that my mother is an alcoholic. I used to ring home of an evening to find that 6 out of 7 nights, she was hammered by 8pm. She has quite a responsible job and doesnt drink on weekdays, so I'd never thought of her drinking excessively. But when I rang on weekends, she was drunk too.
It wasnt until I had a breakdown 3 years ago at the age of 21 that my psychotherapist used the term alcoholic to describe my mother. Although I was depressed, I came to realise that a lot of my problems were due to my insecurity and inability to communicate with other people in a normal manner. My therapist suggested this was because I'd never been able to talk to my mother as she was always drunk.
I decided to talk to my younger sister (who lives in another country) to see how she felt about what my therapist said. I was gobsmacked to find she had come to the realisation that my mother was alcohol dependant years before I had, and had lived through hell whilst I was away at university.
Now,some 3 years later, we have been through a lot and have decided to stick together. My mother will not acknowledge that she has a drinking problem, and although she can stop herself from drinking in the day, she is drunk every night, has stashes of alcohol around the house and often passes out due to drinking too much whilst in public and with guests at home. When she's not drinking she's hungover, and has been increasingly abusively violent towards my sister and I for years. She uses emotional blackmail and tries to cause arguments and trouble between me and my sister to distract us from the fact that she has a problem.
Over the last year, I have become a totally different person. I'm more independant now, and although it upsets me that she wont change, I've accepted that she wont change. Due to me leaving home and setting myself up without her, she has tried to tell everyone that I'm crazy. She has even written to my doctors to say that I've had another breakdown. I think this is because she's seen me deal with my problems without turning to alcohol, and she cant handle it.
Wow, sorry, this is an essay!! I think I needed to get this out. My point is : my sister and I know that we wont be allowed to live a normal life whilst she's in our lives and that if she will consistently choose alcohol over her family then we will have to break away from her for good.
Has anyone else managed this? Im scared that I'm not strong enough to stand up to her.

Welshie x

[sarahjane78]

I had many things as a child that were way beyond anything i could control, or honestly handle.

My mother, still denies to this day, her role and lack of responsibility, she and I do not speak, which is part of why i came looking for this site. I have recently given up the one final vice i've carried the longest.
I stopped using cocaine in 1997, feb 18th to be exact, saddly...i held on too marijuana until about 12 days ago......

My latest poem to Mom is this

MOM

YOUR PAIN IS DEEP
YOUR PAIN IS REAL
THE LOVE IN YOUR HEART
SOMEONE DID STEAL

LOST IN YOUR CONFUSION
SLIPPED INTO ADDICTION
LEFT ME HERE WITH ONLY
SUSPICION

WAS IT ME WHO HURT YOU
ME WHO LET YOU DOWN
FOR ALL I SEE, WHEN YOU LOOK AT ME
IS YOUR FACE WITH A FROWN

ALWAYS CLOSED OFF FROM THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD
NEVER SHARING YOURSELF, WITH YOUR LITTLE GIRL
NOT KNOWING YOU, WILL ALWAYS BE TOUGH
AND LIVING WITH YOU, SURE PROVED ROUGH

GROWING UP THINKING I WAS UNWANTED
WISHING MY DREAMS WEREN’T STILL HAUNTED

CHOICES YOU MADE, WERE LIFE CHANGING
ALL THE WHILE I’D WATCH YOU RAGING
NEVER HAPPY WITH THE GIFT THAT WAS ME
SHOULD HAVE BEEN A HAPPY MOTHER-TO-BE

PEOPLE WHO HURT YOU, WELL THEY HURT ME TO
THEY ROBBED US OF SO MUCH LIKE LOVE AND HOPE
ALL YOU DID WAS TURN TO YOUR DOPE

IN YOUR ADDICTION YOU COULDN’T SEE
THE PAIN AND HURT YOU INFLICTED ON ME

I DIDN’T ASK TO BE HERE, I DIDN’T HAVE A CHANCE
WITH YOU AS A MOTHER,
IM LEFT STANDING IN A GUARDED STANCE

HEART SURGERY, DUANE SYNDROME, ADHD
UNFORTUNATELY FOR ME, THAT IS ALL YOU COULD SEE

GIVING ME RITOLIN, CALLING ME NAMES
LAUGHING AT MY HANDICAPS
IN BETWEEN YOUR DRUGGED-UP NAPS
YOU WERE GIVEN A SECOND CHANCE WITH ME
I FOUGHT FOR YOU, I STAYED FOR YOU
TWO ROUNDS OF SURGERY AND I WAS A FIGHTER
TWO YEARS IN HOSPITAL
SHOULDA HELD ME TIGHTER

INSTEAD YOU WANTED JOE, SHERWOOD AND ROY
IS THAT WHAT YOU WANTED ANOTHER LITTLE BOY
WHEN YOU WERE OUT PARTYING WHERE WAS I
IN BED BEING TOUCHED BY A VERY MEAN GUY

I WOULD COOK FOR US, AND CLEAN FOR US
AND TRY TO MAKE THINGS RIGHT WITH US
NEVER DID YOU APPRECIATE MY LOVE
YOU PUSHED ME AWAY WITH ONE HUGE SHOVE.

AS I GOT OLDER, YES MY HEART GREW COLDER
I SAID THINGS BACK THAT I’D HOPE WOULD HURT MORE
CAUSE FOR EVERY NAME YOU’VE CALLED ME, MY HEART IS STILL SORE
15 YRS OLD AND I SAID SOME THINGS
CAN YOU BLAME ME NOW, SEEING THE HURT YOU BRING

I DIDN’T MEAN I DIDN’T WANT A MOTHER,
WHAT I WANTED WAS YOU, ACTING LIKE ANOTHER
YOU WALKED AWAY THAT YEAR, AND WILL NEVER FORGET
WHAT I DID THAT DAY, THE WORDS I SAID

I KNOW ALL TO WELL, HOW DAMAGING WORDS ARE
AS EVERY TIME YOU’VE SPOKEN TO ME, HAS LEFT EMOTIONAL SCARS

THERE WERE DAYS YOU WOULD SPANK OR WHIP ME WITH SOMETHING CLOSE
BLAME ME LATER, AS IF IT WERE SOMETHING I’D CHOSE

WHATS IT ABOUT?
YOUR FEAR, AND YOUR PAIN
IT’S POURED DOWN ON YOUR KIDS LIKE ICE COLD RAIN

YOUR TEARS UNSEEN, BOY YOU SURE GOT MEAN
WE DIDN’T MAKE YOUR PAST, BUT OFFERED A FUTURE
WE WERE YOUR BABIES, NOT MERELY CREATURES

YOU SAY ILL NEVER BE A GOOD MOTHER, NOT EVEN HALF OF WHAT YOU COULD DO
BUT LOOK AT US NOW, DO YOU REALLY THINK ITS CUDOS TO YOU?

YOU TOOK YOUR PAST, AND MADE IT OUR NOW
KIRKS A MESS, YOU THINK IM A COW.
I DON’T NEED YOUR APPROVAL, AS IT’S A LOST CAUSE
NOTHING I’VE DONE, COULD GET YOUR APPLAUSE

HONOR ROLE IN GR 10, STILL NOT HAPPY, YET AGAIN
BECOMING ADDICTED MYSELF, DESTRUCTIVE IN MY WAYS
ILL TAKE GUILT AND BLAME WITH ME ALL OF MY DAYS

DO I WISH IT WERE DIFFERENT, OR THAT YOU COULD CHANGE
I HATE THE WAY WE LIVE, IN THIS LIFE SO ESTRANGED

any one have any idea how i can start to heal, not only for myself but my mother herself....

She believes that she's been recovered for the past 10 yrs, since my son was born....however, she hasn't worked step 9 with any of her children, or our fathers. and she is very unwilling to admit that maybe, just maybe we didn't make her the way she is, perhaps someone else is responsible for her hurt....I don't know how to approach it without blame, and that in itself shows how cowardly, and weak I still im

If anyone reading this has any insight to share, or suggestions as to how I will mend the bond........please share. I am so lost:sad:

[andre]

...........If anyone reading this has any insight to share, or suggestions as to how I will mend the bond........please share. I am so lost:sad:

I read your post a couple of days ago and have been thinking about it ever since.
I felt the same way when i started really looking into my childhood memories.
I have never felt as low as I did a year ago and I'm still coming to terms with my family, my past and the loss of the best part of my life.
Seeing a therapist for a while really helped.
There is no magic fix though. Find some new interests, try and make some new friends.
And don't forget that at your essence you are a beautiful shining light. :D We all are.

Hows the giving up pot going anyway?
I gave up for 5 years and found it fairly easy but I've started again now because I realised there were certain things about it that I do like it but my habit is much more controlled after that break.
I can see now that there are certain times when smoking dope is a real hindrance to me, like job hunting, dealing with officials etc. And there are other times when I appreciate that little break from routine. I really dont see cannabis as an evil presence in my life. Not compared to a lot of other things I could have got into anyway.
I find it very enlightening at times. Especially the first few smokes after a break.
Anyway. Perhaps that not what you want to hear when you've just stopped.

Best wishes :42:

[hummingbird]

In Famiy recovery, I learned that geographic distancing is just one common way to try to escape (BTDT.)

The emotional/relational distancing is actually much more difficult--particularly if you are experiencing grief, flashbacks, being triggered by similar situations, or still accept phone calls/emails from unrecovered FOO.

Time Out for you to learn different paradigms, behaviors, boundaries, etc. may be essential. It is said that it takes 21-90 days (depending on who you ask, LOL) to change even just a run-of-the-mill behavioral habit.

While it does not have to be forever, you need time to heal...to let go of what doesn't work for you...to devise new life strategies...to become perhaps more independent, and/or find other community support *outside* of the dysfunctional Status Quo.

Outside of dysfunctional systems, you will not be assigned the Usual Roles (and in fact, this is one early warning sign of group dysfunction.) In more healthy circumstances, you will allowed and even *encouraged* to develop strengths--along with everyone else in the group. Hopefully your healing will progress to the point that you will no longer accept the usual manipulative strategies, abuse, etc.

However, at that point, one must make a choice. Although the Three Musketeers' motto was "One for All and All for One," in an organization controlled by an addict (and codependents) manipulation, pity, passivity, and complicity are the rules of the game. Typically, whoever fails to play by these rules (or chooses not to) is out of that particular game or enmeshed group.

One key to emotional boundaries is to learn the difference between acting and *re*acting. Another is to be able to recognize triggers--especially those leading to cycles of abuse. However, perhaps the most important skill is consistently enforcing consequences for unacceptable behavior.

Realize that there is likely to be a testing period, or backlash after any big changes disrupt the status quo (such as one member trying to or succeeding in escape from group enmeshment.)

Be prepared for escalation from the human forces of chaos and bondage--at this point external social support can be a sanity-saver!

At times either the addict, their codependents, relatives in denial, etc. might try various forms of blackmail to coerce you back into the fold (much like the Mafia.) They may ignorantly or narcissistically demand loyalty "even unto death" (your spiritual/emotional/social death, if not a hastened bodily death through the onset of depression, etc.)

But idolatry and enabling are both outside the scope of healthy adult relationships. I have no doubt that ill people do need caretakers and support of various kinds--however, enabling the ongoing manipulation/coercion of the few at the expense of the many will not bring about change.

When/if you feel strong enough, you could try just altering your own "roles" in the usual script. For example, if you can learn to detach, instead of react, during any conversation you might choose to either be silent much of the time (not responding to baiting, etc.) or to deflect the seemingly inevitable ridiculous questions/demands with a comeback such as, "Why do you ask?"

Sometimes it helps to be quite "boring and unavailable," when the people in question would rather dump/project, distract, or otherwise waste everyone's time and energy--rather than do much that is positive or productive. IMO it is important not to let them use you as an easy target or crutch. Typically the addict and codependents need help from outside the family, and they refuse to seek it, which is not only unfair but unhealthy for them to continue to perennially exploit anyone who seems within convenient reach.

There are ways to help without getting completely sucked in/having your life taken over--for example, one could line up community or professional support services--which are less susceptible to manipulation than family members.

It is difficult when much of one's FOO is in denial--thinking that the addict/codependent relationship and abusive behaviors are normal. It can seem as though you are the only Voice in their Spiritual/Social/Emotional Wilderness; and if there are perceived payoffs for maintaining the status quo, then it's easier for them in the short term to file "getting healthy" in the too-hard box. It is also difficult if they are not interested in learning about behavioral cycles--let alone intervention--and are thus stuck in them like broken records.

They have yet to figure out that:

1) if you keep doing everything the same, chances are excellent that you'll get the same results.

2) some folks have grown up, or are trying to move on--and therefore have no interest in self-defeating behavior or cycles.

The question I ask myself is, is it *me* they want, or just control over a convenient, lukewarm body? Usually the answer to that makes it a lot easier to let go.

[Lesley]

I know this is an old thread but it was the first one I came across when tonight of all night I realised I was an AcoA.. OMG I didn't realise until now. I blamed everything, the sexual abuse, the rapes, my step dads for being violent... but no.. the bottom line is I grew up with Alcoholics and violence... that is why I have a lot of traits I couldn't understand or fix and why when I drink once a week I feel dreadfully guilty and afraid to become like them!!

You have no idea how much finding this forum has opened my eyes and made me realise I am not alone. I feel a vague sense of hope!

I recently after finding my estranged brother who walked away from the alcohol house of hell 15 years ago found a lot of feelings coming up. I felt angry towards my mother about the past. I was angry about the neglect, angry about the abuse and that she never protected me. Angry that she uses my sisters and I against each other to deflect attention away from her previous alcoholic past. She no longer drinks because her illness dictates that she will hurt herself if she does by falling.

Anyway back to the story.. I have left home many times over the years and everytime I came back to have some sense of connection with them. Always looking for approval but never finding it. My older sister went off to London, my brother disappeared years ago and I went off, my other sister moved away from the family and the youngest was left. She tried to leave and was guilted back into coming from her career to look after mum. She is secretly resentful of that but she still chooses to look after mum OTT might I add!!

So as you can see we all left her and even tho now she doesn't drink she is still a terrible mother. Selfish, manipulative and useless.. I used to feel guilty about her health condition which was brought on by alcohol abuse. I used to run her around in my car and do anything for her. This complete loyalty consumed me and yet deep down I was seething.

When my brother came back on the scene and my feelings surfaced about my mother I confronted her. As usual she turned the sisters against me and tried to do the same with my brother by playing the victim. My sisters now hate me but 2 of them I think are mental anyway. One threatened to kill me and the other is so full of hate towards me that I actually cried in the supermarket ar her bitterness.

I decided to walk away and if it wasn't for my uncle dying recently and having no choice but to be around them I wouldn't have gone back. I feel like I want to seperate from them for good yet I miss one of my sisters who is the one I know has a chance to escape this too. The other two I don't care about, I feel like they are becoming dead to me.

I am now in a position where I have started speaking with my mum again and am still left with this empty feeling once again and the pity for her situation. I don't want to be sucked back in and the fighting with my siblings has changed the ability for me to go to her house anyway. I just want to let mum go or forgive her but I can't find it in myself to do that. I'm kinda stuck..

Its so much easier to just cut off than try to heal with them around.. Being around them is just an affirmation that I am doing the right thing to walk away.. I think that is probably for the best.. at the same time I don't want my mother to die and never have said goodbye and continue to be consumed with this lack of energy for life, the on and off depression and rage I have. I just want to grow with or without them! It hurts to let go. :24:

Sorry for the essay.. xx:lol:

[hummingbird]

Hello Lesley,

Since this is quite an old thread (but a topic which will always need to be addressed by ACOAs) I thought I would just reply to your post.

It can be both a shock and an intellectual relief (for the would-be Escapee) to know that substance abuse is what makes the wheels keep turning in a family that thrives on denial.

It can be difficult to know what to do with the truth and ensuing discernment that one develops...

JMHO that going through a grief/rage process is normal and healthy for a time. Probably common to also get intermittently triggered by flashbacks or similar situations--these are excellent warning signs to take special care of one's self.

JMHO, also, that the ideal of "detachment with love" may take both time and degrees of distance (i.e. to "Love they neighbor as thyself," one must, often, first establish a separate self--there is no commandment to "Co-opt/control/abuse thy neighbor as thyself," or "in lieu of thyself" :3: yet unfortunately, both self-destructive and other-destructive behaviors tend to escalate without intervention.

Because we are dealing with generational diseases, sadly, we may find that both sides of the unrepentantly abusive family 1) have witnessed or been trained in the behaviors from childhood; 2) are convinced that it all represents a normal, desirable "lifestyle," and 3) feel that acting out/denial/etc. is a justifiable use of "free will" to which they are supposedly "entitled." :sad: However, almost anything can be rationalized by a mind that is destroying itself and it's near environment.

Sometimes it's easier to let go when one understands (after perhaps decades) that some hard-core addicts and codependents do not want healing or freedom--perhaps because they require great faith, courage, strength, and responsibility.

It's hard to see people you once loved (and still want the best for) choose self-inflicted misery for themselves, and manipulation and/or abuse for those around them.

On the other hand, the damaging behaviors can make detachment/separation that much easier to choose over time--particularly when you remember that the morbidity of someone who does not want to be healed or saved will only escalate.

Psychologists say that learning is painful. However, consider the alternatives...:wink:

[Lesley]

Thank you hummingbird.. I read what you said and I have thought long and hard about my family situation. At one point recently I disconnected my phone as I was receiving abusive calls from them as wouldn't back down to bullying from them and apologise to the ones who were being abusive.. why on earth should I apologise when I have done nothing wrong??!! Ludicrous! .. I do recall in the past I would have backed down to that kind of behaviour and found a reason to make it my fault to make them feel better so they would be nice t me.. I sound like a kid!! ... OMG reading this I realise I have been the scapegoat and the over achiever in order to seek approval and some kind of acceptance from people who were rejecting me no matter what.. OMG realisation once again!!

Back to my story.. I have since reconnected my number and told my mother that if she needs me then please contact me. As her nature is neglectful I will not expect any calls and even if she does i may take a while for me to reply if I care too all based on my terms and my time commitments. I am starting to feel a genuine feeling of apathy towards them.. not so much anger more like indifference with underlying disgust.. Every day is an eye opener and I do not think any of them will ever be able to see what is happening nor will they face who and what they have become. The abusive ones in my family towards me have been on prescription meds (black market) and others on cannabis... OMG being a ACoA includes excessive cannabis users as your abusers I assume too.. hmm I'm rambling on.. Sorry x Thank you for your reply xx

[hummingbird]

Hello Lesley,

Glad to hear that this thread may have helped shed a little light on a very difficult situation...:D

I've also been traumatized by an A & codependents in my family, & found the advice of both live support groups & forums to be helpful. When one has learned (sometimes over the course of decades) that some people love their addictions/bad behavior/outright lies more than their own health or that of their family/friends, it can perhaps *feel* like abandonment to largely let their *self-chosen* dilemmas and scenarios go.

However, often it is vital to obtain some sort of intervention (information, assistance, etc.) from outside a dysfunctional family unit which is predicated on enabling certain members at others' expense.

IMHO recovery movements perhaps need a higher profile in society, as these problems are so widespread--and often accepted as "normal." I'm still learning how to detach with a balance of love for myself and God, as well as the overall well-being of the individuals who choose lies, self-pity, and bondage of "the devil they know," vs. the hard work of responsibility for self-care, or for how destructive behavior affects others, etc.

JMHO that we need not grant others freedom to destroy, or otherwise act out and control what is beyond their appropriate scope--and yet folks all around the world are either trained to do this, or choose to give their own powers of thought and action over to something or someone else. It really helped me to realize that this is all a form of idolatry...

Although there are massive trust issues (lack thereof) in these organizations, for me it was sort of a test of faith in myself, God, and progressive community to follow through on what Christians believe is the First Commandment: "Thou shalt have no other Gods before me." You may well already know this, but I had to think long and hard about the fact that people are tempted to put all manner of other things first in their lives--and the ramifications of the saying that alcoholism is a spiritual disease: This is frequently overlooked, or put in the "too hard, and too airy-fairy" basket, for many reasons.

Nevertheless, healing often begins with an internal, individual realization or decision, which eventually manifests in external behavior. Until we are strong enough not to be "swept along" (and continually re-injured) by the dysfunctional family's manipulative/abusive dynamics, we may need to create safe space for ourselves to learn, heal and grow. :29:

I like to think of it as "seeking out new life and new civilizations," LOL. :lol:

Or maybe "going out to look for Power Tools to add to my Toolkit--and learning how to use them safely and effectively," hee hee....:1:

:11: BTW I love your icon! So calming and inspiring.


Lesley said:

At one point recently I disconnected my phone as I was receiving abusive calls from them as wouldn't back down to bullying from them and apologise to the ones who were being abusive.. why on earth should I apologise when I have done nothing wrong??!! Ludicrous!

--Absolutely. Reading your posts helps me, too--My FOO also thinks this form of abusive entitlement is normal--or at least they believe(d) they were entitled to act this way toward "selected targets."

For better or worse, I started thinking "WTF" at a young age--being able to see that the behaviors were inappropriate and unjustifiable. They had little idea of what more healthy coping mechanisms for their "stuff" might be, and so chose to stick with The Devil They Knew and felt most comfortable with at *any* cost. But I wasn't willing to participate or submit--no wonder I pi$$ them off/freak them out, LOL...


"I do recall in the past I would have backed down to that kind of behaviour and found a reason to make it my fault to make them feel better so they would be nice t me.. I sound like a kid!! ... OMG reading this I realise I have been the scapegoat and the over achiever in order to seek approval and some kind of acceptance from people who were rejecting me no matter what.. OMG realisation once again!!"

-Thank you so much for your honesty, L. I could have written the same thing, and it is very healing to hear your own experience being confirmed by others, when you were trained to believe that either 1) It was all your own, personal fault; or 2) It was all your own family's fault--instead of either a generational or widespread social epidemic.

(IMO, society suffers from an epidemic of denial, fear, and lack of responsibility...;p ) If I'm honest this still sometimes makes me very frustrated, angry, etc. but I've gotten much better at looking for effective coping strategies, as opposed to either drowning in negativity, passivity, or any addiction other than books...;) I recently read that for some folks, therapeutic reading is a form of self-medicating, ha ha--guilty as charged...


"Back to my story.. I have since reconnected my number and told my mother that if she needs me then please contact me. As her nature is neglectful I will not expect any calls and even if she does i may take a while for me to reply if I care too all based on my terms and my time commitments."

--They typically have problems taking responsibility for their contribution to the quality of relationships. I also find them to often be on a see-saw of extremes, cycling between self-pity, abuse, and manipulation to keep other people "hooked in." It's like seeing the same circus act over and over, except the performances get worse, and the perform*ers* get freakier, to the point of dangerous.


"I am starting to feel a genuine feeling of apathy towards them.. not so much anger more like indifference with underlying disgust.. Every day is an eye opener and I do not think any of them will ever be able to see what is happening nor will they face who and what they have become."

--Yep, the denial can be soul destroying. The Baha'is (who do not drink) say that "Truthfulness is the foundation of all human virtues." Lying to oneself is perhaps the worst lie of all, IMO, because it permits all the others which follow.


"The abusive ones in my family towards me have been on prescription meds (black market) and others on cannabis... OMG being a ACoA includes excessive cannabis users as your abusers I assume too..."

--Yes, if you haven't come across the info already, I think there are 2 types of addictions: Process addictions (shopping, TV, eating, sex, Internet, work, etc.); and substance addictions. They may rationalize all of this as an "escape from stress," a form of rebellion, a form of entitlement, an expression of so-called "freedom" without responsibility, a form of recreation, a medium of social bonding, and so on. You've probably heard all the excuses....

Wishing you peace that passes understanding...


Hummingbird

[Lesley]

Hi Hummingbird, I had to re read ur post many times over the space of a few days. I know it sounds crazy but I couldn't take it in. My mind would not another perspective to be considered. I have started reading the ACOA book by Janet Wollitz. Ur posts and her book are helping to open my eyes beyond a level I ever considered.

The funeral for my uncle happened yesterday and I was very scared of the idea of being around my family with my enabler sister who stands up for my mothers behaviour and fell out with me for standing up to my mother. I was expecting more greif from her. As it turned out she made her point clear, tried to make out that I was being sensitive and that i brought the past up to spite mum no other reason. She said that she had friends who's substance abusing parents had put them through hell and back and the adult children were still loyal and we should respect our mother etc etc. I simply made it clear that parents who treat their children should be called on their actions. Not allowed to be blanketed and allowed that kind of behaviour.

My plan for that day was to make a peaceful reconnection with the family and be free to walk away no longer feeling like I need to look after them.

That evening my mum and everyone else started drinking and my mother started on me. "you are a spoilt b***H!You are a spoilt b***h! twice. When I told her she was out of line and i would not tolerate that kind of behaviour and was leaving she walked off, my younger sister came into the situation and immediately stuck up for my mum who was drunk. The next line that came from my mothers mouth was "DON'T you be getting all offended" I said " I will be offended, today is (deceased uncles) funeral day and you are downright disrespectful for carrying on like this and I will take offence because what you say is offensive" She then got nasty and started screaming at me "You need to f***ing wake up" . I looked at her and walked away in disgust. I then left the house and after driving off away from the house cried my eyes out in realisation that my own mother is jealous of me and despite all her efforts to put me down in life and for me to be proud of my achievements or her to be, she wasn't she was bitter and would never love me for me and she is sick. I disconnected yesterday from her. She always held me back from getting in grammar school, achieving anything, verbally abused my bf's. Made out like i was a freak for having emotions. I saw so much dysfunction yesterday not just in the argument I felt sick. I was an academic at school and have an IQ of 135, can u imagine how frustrating that must have been to an alcoholic mother who is jealous of her own child, it's like a skittle in bowling you can never knock down! I'm glad I frustrate her and will never be like her!

This morning I phoned my mum asking how the rest of the night went. I knew that there would be no apology for her actions and prob no memory. Instead, she justified her actions by saying "you're very lucky you only got the verbal from me last night, I hit your sisters". My younger sisters laughed in the background and said it was just a tap.

I finished my call not long after, I didn't call her on her behaviour as there was no point. She didn't have any guilt at all. Somehow by seeing it for what it is in full motion and listening to the justifications I am able to quietly walk away and I feel whole and disconnected in a healthy way from her. I still wish I could help my sisters but I think now is not the time for as long as my mother is alive. Their loyalty is too strong.

My grammar is all over the place as you can see, I'm a bit emotionally topsy turvy and exhausted from the recent events, but at the same time I feel amazing and for the first time in my life I am starting to feel FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE :)

[Pete477j]

This is my first post here, and I have only dropped in from time to time to sample the discussions. This topic really grabbed me, so I'll put in my two-cents worth. My dad was an alcoholic from his junior year in high school until he died at age 75. Both his mom and my mom detailed this behavior in the many family stories about dad's "antics" while intoxicated. My mom was an enabler to his behavior for most of the 53 years they were married. I tried, myself, to develop some sort of relationship with my father for five decades, without any success. It was only after the end of my first marriage of 23 years to a woman who in the end admitted, "I never loved you, not even for a minute. I just married you because I thought you would take care of things for me." that I realized I was headed in the wrong direction. It was during the post-divorce period of recovery (some counseling, some self-help work) I realized I shouldn't allow myself to be drawn into any more toxic relationships.

It was about the time when I first began dating my current wife (whose father was a recovering alcoholic) that I once again tried to establish some sort of "normal" relationship with my dad. Over the years the entire family had tried several times to get him into treatment, etc, but he always refused. It was Labor Day weekend, 2002, when I came to the realization my father was not interested in having any kind of "normal" relationship with anyone. So I had a frank talk with him and explained I would no longer be having any contact with him until such time as he had voluntarily gone through treatment and was in active recovery. I also talked with my mom in hopes she would understand. I took a different direction in my life. My mother, despite her enabling behavior, was quite understanding and expressed her wish that I would reconsider, but also said she understood completely if I didn't change my decision.

In the three years that followed I spoke to my father only the few times he answered the phone when I called my mom. I lived in another city then, so each time I came to their city I made arrangements to visit my mom, help her with tasks around her house, etc, but did not engage my dad at all. About a year before he died he went into the hospital for complications of his diabetes and alcoholism. The doctors put him on a "medication holiday" to see what would happen, and for the first time in years my mom saw her husband in a different light. Without the alcohol, and the cocktails of medications to counteract all of his unhealthful behavior, he became lucid and somewhat manageable. Before he came home I had a heart-to-heart talk with my mom. I explained to her the difference she observed in his behavior was the difference between a practicing alcoholic, and someone who wanted to live. She asked me if I was going to re-establish contact with dad, and I reminded her of my terms -- treatment and active recovery first. I told her, "I know I deserve better than he has been treating me all these years, and I'm pretty sure you deserve the same."

After I left she talked with dad's doctors, and gained some serious insights into how to deal with both his alcoholism and his diabetes. She threw out all of the alcohol she could find in the house (and she found pretty much all of it). She went through her cupboards and gave away all of the processed foods and sugary snacks that weren't good for a diabetic. She found some very good diet and nutrition resources for diabetics, and began "cooking" for her and dad again. She also established some boundaries for their relationship. No more enabling his alcoholism, no more belligerent behavior toward her, and compliance with doctors' orders.

On subsequent visits I did note my dad displayed a totally different attitude toward mom -- quiet disdain and resignation to his fate. He generally respected her boundaries, but still found occasional sources for alcohol. About a month before his death he ended up in the hospital again. It seems he tried to kill himself with a potassium overdose. Mom and I had another heart-to-heart talk. I let her know she had done her time in purgatory and it was time dad went to a nursing home. He was there three weeks, had three roommates in four days, and numerous conflicts with the staff. Ultimately he was assigned to a room by himself because he couldn't play well with others.

A few days before he died my youngest brother called to ask what it would take to get me to come see dad. He told me, "Dad said he wants to make up." I asked him what that meant and my brother exploded into a rage, indicating the idea was really his, not dad's. After he died, several of the family made up things attributed to my dad trying to cheer mom up, but in the end, all they did was pile guilt on her. In a few months we moved mom into a new house of her own and in the years since she has come to realize how battered she was all those years. A few months ago we had another heart-to-heart talk. She told me she now understands why I cut ties with my dad, and she respects the tough decision I made. I haven't been so fortunate with my siblings who continue to hold a grudge. But such is life, and perhaps some day they too will see things for what they were and are.

Anyway, this has gotten really long, so please accept my apologies for rambling on, and understand severing ties can not only be a good step, however painful, but also a necessary step. There is a "normal" life out there for those who seek it. I am now the luckiest guy on earth, having a truly loving relationship with a wonderful woman who knows the hell I went through and appreciates how tough it was to break free.

[hummingbird]

Hi again, Lesley,

Well of course I'm sorry to hear of your family's loss (Uncle's passing,) and how difficult were the circumstances which followed. However, also glad for you to be able to really see the manipulation, etc. that went on, and to have the great strength to set and enforce appropriate boundaries.

It is very painful to have to do this with one's own family, naturally--but consider the potential for far greater future pain, otherwise...:3: The research literature shows that without intervention of some kind, the behavior will *escalate* toward greater intensity and morbidity.

Although many people can tend to mellow as they age, the unrepentantly abusive typically get *worse*over time (this is true no matter what age they are--the abuse usually occurs in cycles of gradually increasing severity.) :twisted:

And both unrecovered addicts and abusers have major issues with denial, unfortunately...

Hi Hummingbird, I had to re read ur post many times over the space of a few days. I know it sounds crazy but I couldn't take it in. My mind would not another perspective to be considered.

Yeah, because of the enormous problems of denial, manipulation, and heavy investment in presenting socially-acceptable False Selves to the world, there are pathologies "hidden in plain sight," because they have been normalized.

It is quite normal to be in shock for awhile as the whole "ball of yarn" begins to unravel...Take good care of yourself, give yourself time/space/pampering as necessary to come to terms with it.

Once our "feet have been held to the fire," we will know enough to stay away from it, and/or not get burned that way again. JMHO that the God of our understanding has a higher purpose for our lives, and is clearly at work to put the broken pieces back together in a stronger, better form. :D

The funeral for my uncle happened yesterday and I was very scared of the idea of being around my family with my enabler sister who stands up for my mothers behaviour and fell out with me for standing up to my mother.

Be afraid of the Family Enmeshment/Drama! Be Very Afraid!! LOL. :wink: You are so right to be wary, and to have a plan to protect yourself. Also very brave to try to maintain some form of appropriate interaction, even if the behavior of the others "is what it is."

It is true that as adults most of us have a certain power to teach others how to treat us, simply by what we do or do not encourage/tolerate. Although we can't control their behavior, we can certainly take charge of our choices (whether that threatens them or not, ha ha.)

She said that she had friends who's substance abusing parents had put them through hell and back and the adult children were still loyal and we should respect our mother etc etc.

Yeah, the "Honor thy Father and Mother" commandment is twisted and abused all the time. Maybe your just not seeking revenge is all the form of honor they can expect? Clearly it is wrong for abusive people to expect loyalty, secrecy, or entitlement. The Bible (amongst other religious traditions) also says to "Love they neighbor *as thyself*", not "instead of thyself," or "over thyself."

That evening my mum and everyone else started drinking and my mother started on me. "you are a spoilt b***H!You are a spoilt b***h! twice.

Aw, jeez, I've been in that same situation (just insert a different swear word...) This is part of the addict or narcissist's array of compulsions, it seems--they feel both entitled and compelled to "go through the routine," whatever it may be, and however more or less destructive it may be.:sad: Worse yet, if you refuse to collaborate with anything they're doing, they cannot simply respect it and move on--since your divergence threatens their identity and sense of control.

When I told her she was out of line and i would not tolerate that kind of behaviour and was leaving she walked off, my younger sister came into the situation and immediately stuck up for my mum who was drunk.

Yes, in dysfunctional families/organizations the members are played off against one another, and are assigned permanent roles, as you probably know. :rolleyes: (I experienced something similar to what you describe with my own sibling, although I have tried repeatedly to point out my parents' destructiveness.) The Golden Child/Mascot or what have you will predictably minimize whatever has happened to the Scapegoat, and so on, because they are obtaining perceived benefits from doing so.


The next line that came from my mothers mouth was "DON'T you be getting all offended"

Most interactions with abusive people are "set-ups" for negative attention-seeking--even the "rewards" and placating behavior can be rationalized as manipulative excuses for bad behavior in the future, after the individual has swung back to the Tension-Building and Explosive phases of the cycle...:sad:

She then got nasty and started screaming at me "You need to f***ing wake up"

Aww....Yeah, I've heard the same thing from my parents, minus the F word. This is because I am also the Scapegoat...It helps to remember that, increasingly, everything they do (and you do) can be twisted--sooner or later--and used as an excuse for bad behavior, due to the propensity for negative attention-seeking; denial; entitlement issues, etc.


I looked at her and walked away in disgust. I then left the house and after driving off away from the house cried my eyes out in realisation that my own mother is jealous of me and despite all her efforts to put me down in life and for me to be proud of my achievements or her to be, she wasn't she was bitter and would never love me for me and she is sick.

Sigh...Yep, BTDT too...Sending you hugs, hon! Narcissism is a huge problem, as is intra-family competition. Sometimes the most insecure members will do anything to drag the others down to their level.

She always held me back from getting in grammar school, achieving anything, verbally abused my bf's. Made out like i was a freak for having emotions. I saw so much dysfunction yesterday not just in the argument I felt sick.

"Let those who have ears to hear, hear; let those who have eyes to see, see." You are not alone in having been sabotaged either overtly or covertly--yes it does hurt and shock to realize this was done by one's own Mother. (And that she wants to keep on doing it!) :3: *And* that none of this was your fault, because she was supposed to be the responsible adult...:162:

I was an academic at school and have an IQ of 135, can u imagine how frustrating that must have been to an alcoholic mother who is jealous of her own child, it's like a skittle in bowling you can never knock down! I'm glad I frustrate her and will never be like her!

Yes, once again, same here--high-functioning people can sometimes be idealized by narcissists, but only if they are able to derive narcissistic supply from them via association. At some point she probably became competitive with you/unable to control you and it freaked her out, LOL.

Because your giftedness made you "different," she decided to project her own failings and pathology onto you (i.e. Scapegoating/Gaslighting.)

I love your metaphor of the bowling skittle that "never dies," though, ha ha. :cool:

Instead, she justified her actions by saying "you're very lucky you only got the verbal from me last night, I hit your sisters". My younger sisters laughed in the background and said it was just a tap.

OK I don't know the psychological or sociological terminology for this, but I am certain that the eldest--perhaps especially the eldest daughters in a dysfunctional household--are assigned to some special circle of dysfunctional family hell by abusive parents! Not sure but I think it has something to do with role reversal and the expectations of caregiving, which an unskilled/narcissistic/addict parent will never be able to fulfill properly.

So the easiest "answer" to this "childcare problem" for them might be to try to train Eldest Child to 1) become family caretakers, themselves; 2) project all parental failure onto the offspring; 3) insist that the eldest concurrently set a perfect example for younger siblings. :rolleyes: :sad:

I finished my call not long after, I didn't call her on her behaviour as there was no point.

Yeah, if they are entitled to the behavior, of course there will never be anything wrong with it. The behavior is also just another form of bait for continued enmeshment.

I've been largely not responding during most of my own Mom's phone "conversations," which consist of the same ignorant questions and comments week after week--with added heapin' helpin's of manipulation. She gets dead silence from me for most of it, and you can practically hear her thinking: "What the....Where's my reactive payoff, huh??" :lol: Even the one email chat she resorted to out of desperation was baiting and reactive, ha ha (easier to laugh when she's on the other side of the country, not spewing into your ear on the phone, of course.)

I have not been willingly under the same roof with her for years, though, as every time it occurs she behaves "predictably" with adult tantrums, etc.

I still wish I could help my sisters but I think now is not the time for as long as my mother is alive. Their loyalty is too strong.

Hmmm that's a good point, Les...My sibling may be heavily invested in his own role until or even after my parents' deaths. I've said some things just to point out the pathology, but he has a history of denying what he doesn't want to know, having taken his place as Golden Child after I began refusing to comply with the dysfunction.

My grammar is all over the place as you can see, I'm a bit emotionally topsy turvy and exhausted from the recent events, but at the same time I feel amazing and for the first time in my life I am starting to feel FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE :)

:29: Good riddance to rigidity for its own sake, I say. "And the truth shall set you free..." Yahoo! :12: :85:

[hummingbird]

Pete,

I just wanted say thank you for your honesty and great writing skills! ;)

It certainly sux to be out the family "loop," but if that should happen to look more like a noose, better for yourself and those closest to you "just say no"...

It can be very difficult to do this is in a way that others perceive as "loving," since to them it may look like disloyalty/judgment/one-upmanship, etc. But if your Mom understood from the beginning, it sounds like you did this very difficult thing well!

[soulwishes]

Thanks to all who posted in this thread before me so I know I'm not alone. I'm currently going through the process of severing ties with my own mother, for what feels like the millionth time but I think this might really be it this time. I am 30 and I've had enough.

The last time I cut her off, was the longest I hadn't spoken to her in my life. It was about a year that we didn't talk while living in the same city. She tried but I managed to ignore her calls for that long. She was on "good behaviour" to some degree once I allowed her back into my life again after that, but mostly because she was in a better place than she had been in before, and things were looking up for her. Plus, I kept her at arm's length and learned to screen all her calls, only ever calling her back if she didn't sound entirely incapacitated. I don't remember the last time I spoke to her while she was sober. Or the last time she was ever sober at all. I would try to call her only in the mornings, hoping to catch her before she was too far gone but even that strategy is no longer fool proof and hasn't been for a good long while. She's usually half in the bag by about 9 or 10am.

Now things have been good for her for a while stability wise thanks to the relationship she is in with a man who holds a stable long term career and pays her way (as compared to in the past - she's been on the streets, she's been in hostels, she's been in shelters,
she's been in very bad places) but she's slipped back into a severe depression, worse than almost ever before.

Now the man who gave her the helping hand she needed to climb out of the gutter, has become her enabler and she is worse now in her drinking than she's ever been before. She is 55.

The honeymoon period (when she and i got back in touch just after she moved in with him when she was in high spirits and giddy over the new relationship and his being able to take care of her - something she always needed from SOMEONE because she can't look after herself responsibly) is now over - she now takes him for granted (her partner) and abuses him regularly. Yet he tolerates it... no one understands why. I question how long he will tolerate it for.

I can't tolerate it anymore, neither can my husband or our family. She has slipped back into her ornery, hateful, spiteful ways again and is spending her days and nights in a cycle back and forth between sleep, drunken stupors and not much else.

I just joined this community and posted a bit of my story in the intro sectino - maybe I should have saved it for here, I'm not sure. If anyone would like to read it, it's in the Intro section for Newbies under "Looking for support - adult child of alcoholic" - I can't link to it as I don't have 5 posts yet. Forum rules.

Pete, I agree, severing ties can be a good, liberating and necessary step. I just hope I am strong enough to make it. I know I deserve better. What saddens me the most is not that I don't have a mother but that my children will never have a grandmother. At least not on my side. It just breaks my heart.