Jan 15-21

[fibiray]

Principles before personalities is part of our traditions and the other week at my local meeting there were several members celebrating birthdays. The secretary who had been sober (and I use the term lightly) had taken the stand that he would not get a card or cake for one particular member who was 38yrs sober because of his own dislike towards the woman. I not only thought that this was a bit mean spirited but the traditions speak of principles before personalities. There are many in the fellowship who I believe have different degrees of addiction and we come from such a diverse range of backgrounds. When it comes to the disease of alcoholism it does not discriminate, I would hope that the recovery does not too. There are a select few that I don't agree with or do not take to, but will put principles before personalities and call them if chairing a meeting. I can still learn from them. No doubt there are those who also don't care for me and I would hope would apply this principle with regard to me. I believe that the main objective of this principle is to ensure the all persons no matter what the background is included in the fellowship of recovery and this removes the alienation and isolation that alcoholics experience whether it is real or imagined. thanks for letting me share.

Fi
xxx:wink:

[Carol87]

Thanks for posting this ... I need a constant reminder since I have a tendency to put personalities before principles. Sometimes I just have to walk away from certain meetings or people until I can get a handle on the committee meetings in my head!! :rolleyes: Having said that, I cannot imagine 'sabotaging' a sobriety celebration just because of differing viewpoints! :9:

:D

[fibiray]

I was always told to walk away in the face of adversity if you think that you will not handle yourself apporpriately, as this is better than shooting our mouths off and regretting something we have said or done. My only problem is that I always take things to the extreme where either I walk away in the face of adversity and don't say anything which ultimately develops into a resentment, or I go to the other extreme and come flying through like a mini tornedo. I guess this just reaffirms the isms in me and that anger is not something that I can afford the luxury of. By placing principles before personalities this reinforces the concept of equality for all.

fi
xxx

[Doraine]

I can't believe a member would discriminate against someone with 38 years of sobriety. It's just wrong. Just my 2 cents.

[peajaye]

I have a real problem with becoming judgemental and intolerant of people's behavior at meetings. Pet peeves of mine are having side conversations while the meeting is going on and a lot of moving around and distractions. There is a government run operation that busses women with children in for meetings and they are disruptive and annoying. The ones that bug me most though are the people that have been around for awhile.

Principles before personalities. This concept is what makes me aware of my intolerance and harsh judgements and critical thinking. Love and tolerance must be my code. My goal is to talk myself out of these things, or at least to become aware of my own shortcomings. Remembering that whenever I am disturbed, there is something within me that needs attention. And when I am pointing out their imagined shortcomings, I am not listening to the meeting myself and taking the risk of developing a resentment.

A guy shared this with me in my first year of sobriety and it has stayed with me and I do it as well. Before every meeting, I pray for God to help me to hear what I need to hear, say what I need to say and to do what I need to do. That is what I pray during the moment of silence before the serenity prayer. So I have to believe that what God wants me to see is my intolerance and harsh judgemental attitude. There was a time that I, too had to bring my young dtr with me to the meetings. She was 4 when I got sober and 5 when I began to bring her with me occasionally. I need to think of them in a more compassionate light.

[free2bunme]

I was always told to walk away in the face of adversity if you think that you will not handle yourself apporpriately, as this is better than shooting our mouths off and regretting something we have said or done. My only problem is that I always take things to the extreme where either I walk away in the face of adversity and don't say anything which ultimately develops into a resentment, or I go to the other extreme and come flying through like a mini tornedo.

Fi - I totally identify with your post. I also tend to either a. get overly emotional and say things that i later regret, or b. stay silent and develop a resentment. I like the saying "say what you mean and mean what you say, but don't say it meanly." i guess for me, that might mean staying silent initially, and then speaking my truth later when i have had time to pray, reflect, and let go of any anger i may be feeling around the person.

i notice that i am very judgmental and self-righteous about either extreme personality i find in a meeting:

1. the peoplewith some time who is doing very well themselves, but is incredibly and viciously judgmental and gossipy about others who may be failing. i find this a lot in some of the more "high bottom" meetings i go to -- for instance, there have been a couple of situations where certain women, who are very cliquey and have an outside appearance of having everything very together, will "drop" and "avoid" and "speak unkindly" about other women who attend the meetings and have had a slip. it's like they take some sick pleasure in watching another fail and use it to make themselves feel better about themselves. and it's also like they fear that they will somehow become infected with another person's silence. i find that with people like this, i am afraid of them. i don't want them talking bad about me too. so my solution has been just to stay completely out of their way, be friendly and distant. in a perfect world, i would open my mouth about how arond and against aa principles this behavior is. but my people pleasing defects keep me silent.

2. the people with some time that either have not really worked the steps or have some other mental health issue, who are clearly still very sick and who take up a lot of time in meetings with their own personal crap. there are definitely a couple of women in the meetings i go to who i have developed a resentment towards, who i want to say "shut up! perhaps if you would be quiet and listen for a while instead of continually spouting out your own personal version of insanity, maybe you would get better!!!" instead, i am again silent and just steer clear of them. i also, unfortunately, tend to discount anything they have to say and look at them as hopeless annoyances taking up space in my meeting.

clearly i have a lot of work to do in order to truly become "patient, loving, tolerant and kind" towards all, not just the ones that i like or admire. the one positive thing i can do is give this to the newcomer, and i feel that i am not alone in this. the beauty of aa shines most brightly with a newcomer, to me. we can all remember when we were one, how crazy we were, and how patient others were to us.


i think i will start trying this and see if it helps me:

. Before every meeting, I pray for God to help me to hear what I need to hear, say what I need to say and to do what I need to do. That is what I pray during the moment of silence before the serenity prayer. So I have to believe that what God wants me to see is my intolerance and harsh judgemental attitude.

Thank you for this pearl of wisdom PJ.

[clean42day]

I really didn't have too many people role model this thoery except for my 2 sponsors. and I didn't see them paractice it in action too much because well....In AA the situation hardly arose while I was around. But they did drill it home everytime I would call with complaints of how I thought people should act or not act according to my interpretation of principals, values, beliefs, desires....and just generaly mememememememe! :lol: so I would always get that kind of thinking turned around on me and asked?: "Well how are you practicing spiritual principals over little personalities my dear"? and I didn't like it one bit :rolleyes:

I think when we first come into the programs, we learn the concepts...but if we don't work the steps...many people don't learn how to put the concepts and principals into "actions". they can parrot the words, the phrases, and the cliche's but they have not internalized them and made them thier own and a truth they live by yet. living the program into actions....needs very little "language" to back it up...I can see the people who do this without any words at all. thier actions speak so much louder than thier words in so many little ways.

The best way that I understand principals over personalities....is it is a parellel to "a loving God as he may express himself in our group conscience> in other words "spirit"....the term "namaste" comes to mind - the spirit in me recognizes the spirit in you. and there is a way to set our little personalities aside and recognize that a loving God is working through someone and in some cases as personalities..he is not working through someone...but is instead working on me...to practice some tolerance.

I still don't like it one bit when I see people who will not recognize this concept or put it into practice, and I don't have to...because what I do have to accept is that what I am looking at is actually my own shadow side -what I did when I was new...what I am still capable of doing today...and how ugly I myself can get. I also don't have to love everyone in the program that I come into contact with...but I do have to love and respect the reason they are there in the first place...to learn a new way to live. and in the middle of that learning, when they don't act on principals and it doesn't look "pretty" to me and looks "petty" instead....I am the one who gets to say...forgive them lord for they know not what they do> and then focus on forgiveness myself....why? because the same judgmental mind that I have just directed at them....belongs to me first. and God Knows what I do with my own "judgement" of myself when I fall short, and when I don't live up to the very principals that I expect of others. OHHHHH and it is not pretty and I can get very petty with me. If I allow it....my personality will rip me to shreds too all by my little self. so the bottom line for me is...in a selfish way....I want what will bring me peace. and Forgiveness, pardon, empathy, tolerance, compassion, and love are the principals that bring me peace. Fortunatley I don't have to go home with anyone and live inside of their skin. I have enough to handle living inside my own.

In NA I have seen Personalities over Principals....end up out in the parking lot in fist fights. I have seen meeting halls loose their space over such conflicts. I have seen the cops have to be called....members leave the fellowship in this area and drive 50 miles to the next town to attend meetings.

for me when i am in my personaliy first and not practicing a principal...what I am actually doing in essence....is disregarding God and his laws...and not putting his ways first in my consciousness. what I am saying is that what I think and act on is better than what God would want me to do. and that is never a good thing and usually I end up in a little wreck and I get to looooooook Lonnng and hard at myself again.:eek:

practicing principals over personalities....means all the principals...not just the ones I like.

thanks for listening

Light and love

Gail

[fibiray]

I love that term high bottom case. I think that in the external aspect I was a high bottom case, but on an internal aspect I was a low bottom case. There has been some powerful stuff shared here. While lunching with some ladies from the fellowship last week we had discussed the clickiness that can occur with some and all agreed that the program was about getting real warts and all. After explaining a situation with the women from the steps meeting that I had attended and how there was this backstabby thing happening, I had said that I was disturbed how this sort of thing went on. I don't know if I was nieve or simply never seen it before but I was quite put off. Old D who is 30yrs sober had said Never Never Never give your power away and stop going to meetings because of these things or these people. Find another meeting and another group of people. She too had a time where she had been dragged through the mud by certain members who were still sick and she had weathered a lot but she remained stead fast in her journey and kept coming to meetings. She really is a powerful example of the steps and the traditions.

fi
xxx

[mellotripp]

I've seen many a case,... in the program. The applicable term here would be "understanding". Understanding can go from "yes, I have felt like that" to "yes, you need to get your **** out of your ***" It is not wrong to call someone on their mistakes. For if I had not been called on mine, maybe I would still be where I started. It would not be proper though, to do it in a meeting, because here I would be doing the deed at their expense.

[flickchic]

I am unable to share here as I have never been to meetings, however I'd like to say that there is some great sharing happening here and the principles before personalities are applicable in living life on lifes terms. Thank's for your shares,
Quote:
I was always told to walk away in the face of adversity if you think that you will not handle yourself apporpriately, as this is better than shooting our mouths off and regretting something we have said or done. My only problem is that I always take things to the extreme where either I walk away in the face of adversity and don't say anything which ultimately develops into a resentment, or I go to the other extreme and come flying through like a mini tornedo. I can totally relate to this in my personal r/ships Fi.

Remembering that whenever I am disturbed, there is something within me that needs attention. can well relate to this also PJ.

[Prescott]

Hi ALL !! When problems arise within meetings or in recovery I'm reminded of what I don't want for "MY" recovery. If I don't go to "Group Meeting's and vote" I really have no voice in the matter. Getting 2 or more alcoholic's to agree on anything is a hard job. Never mind a whole group. I have seen groups split and in the end AA gains because a whole new group grows out of
the conflict. I believe when we pray in together our H.P. is with us and nothing happens by mistake. With members at different stages of recovery, some actually working the steps, while some with time never having worked the steps it's easy to understand "Personalities over Principles". I also believe this conflict has been around since our conception thus "Tradition One" and the other 11. Spiritualy inspired and as a human alway's a work in progress.

[free2bunme]

I believe when we pray in together our H.P. is with us and nothing happens by mistake. :D

I like that John. Was sharing about this topic with another friend last night ... she said that she often has the same frustrations that i do ... but pointed out that it's not all about me (wait. it's not? :mrgreen: :lol: ) even if a share seems totally pointless to me, it could be helping someone else in that room. Important thing to keep in the front of my mind whenever i feel frustrated at a meeting.:195:

[sioux]

Gossip and dissention have no place in Alcoholics Anonymous.

I remember when I was a newcomer all I could share was anger, ego and attitude. I had no experience, strength and very little hope. The tolerence shown to me in meetings was astounding. They were going to love me; I hated me.

That doesn't mean that there weren't those too that had plenty to say about me after meetings. I had overheard one gal complaining about me to another AA member. The other member cut her off immediately and simply, lovingly stated "Sioux is one of my dearest friends." I cannot tell you how that softened me, taught me that there are ways we can deal with annomosity while protecting anonimity.

And what a gentle way to teach the lady that he was speaking too as well, that he had boundaries he lived within. No harm, no foul. It is a learning process that requires a great deal of courage and strength.

There are people I do not care for in meetings. There are neighbors I do not care for, co-workers that drive me up the wall, and these kids have been home for three days because of the weather (need I say more?). I was a liar, a cheat and a theif when I drank and used drugs. Today I don't steal things from others -- be that things they have or emotions they engage in. I have learned to go to other meetings, smile at the neighbors, and take the kids to grandmas.

[free2bunme]

The other member cut her off immediately and simply, lovingly stated "Sioux is one of my dearest friends." ...what a gentle way to teach the lady that he was speaking too as well, that he had boundaries he lived within. No harm, no foul. It is a learning process that requires a great deal of courage and strength.

Wow, what powerful testimony. Thank you so much for sharing this story, Sioux. If I find myself in a similar position, I hope that I have the courage and strength to follow this person's lead.

[sioux]

I know that you will. :D

[free2bunme]

Thanks Sioux, for your support and validation and hope and belief. I appreciate it and need it! Take care. Peace and love.