Hypothetical Questions

[skyhook]

Again, ITL, while your posts served as a springboard to my comments about a topical thread, it had nothing to do with you personally.

Mine was not in response to the positions and opinions you represent, but to the manner in which you employ them. You havent been here long, so I will give you the benefit of the doubt of trying to learn on the fly. Many of us try to look out for the big picture and not get caught up in the minutia. BUt some of your posts are so good, they demand a response, and I thank you for the opportunity to respond, as well.

I do apologize for not recognizing "snake oil salesman" or " running away with ones tails between their legs" as endearing sentiment, but than again, you and I share different belief systems, and fundamentally, I think that is why we occasionally trip on one another. So out of respect to you, let me take this opportunity to apologize for misunderstanding the intent of your written text.

Thanks again, for the diverse, engaging and expansive thread coverage, that more times than not, offers fair guidance to a watching membership.

[skyhook]

Originally Posted by IntoTheLight

In another thread, Mike and I have agreed to "wipe the slate clean" and begin over.

I expect that I will be re-posting my rebuttal to him either in a new thread or continuing it here.

Nevertheless, Mike and I are working together now and I thank him for his courtesy in coming to a rational middle ground with me on these issues.

[Sidebar: A note to Skyhook and others who share his sentiments: just because there is a momentary disagreement or conflict on a forum, does not mean that it will exist perpetually. Often, through discussion and time, people who have opposing viewpoints can reach some sort of accomodation if they are willing to be patient and take the time to do so.]

Hi,
Since my name has been applied, may I add that sharing Mikes sentiments or choosing sides was not the point of my posts. Mike and I also have a history of discussion on things we disagree with. My point, on this trhead was for one of inclusion, regardless of familiarity. Its called tolerance.

Supposing this is a side choosing adventure is regrettable, because it makes the discussion about winning and not about growing. I will watch and learn more. Maybe we all will.

[alcoholrehabcoach]

my model of the world:

winning = learning.

[alcoholrehabcoach]

Keep this up and I will have to delete this thread.

[clean42day]

Not being able to let go of the need to be "right" can really throw a thread off track. I hope that we can all learn from eachothers points of view.

light and love

Gail

[BIG AL]

Yikes one of the reason I have sat idley by and moved to another site is becouse of the pissing contest that seems to sprung up.As I watched it seemed to work it self out as these things do when 2 intellegent people who have broke down some barriers wich needed to be broken.Lets remeber the personal victory is the alcholic that we help not if we are right or wrong.I am wrong about a whole lot of stuff.I remeber yrs ago me and mike went at it and as I keep a open mind I realised that although I dont always agree with his thoughts,We can agree to disagree.AA big book clearly says that aa does not hold the monopaly on sobriety.I like to see some healthy debattting on some of this stuff If.I say check the ego at the door and give us your claim of recovery.My sister went through teen challenge no steps no traditions nothing but full gospel jesus save me.Is that for me?Nope would of died I neeeded the 12 steps.I needed to be tought how to live one day at a time.I have sought out outside counsleing for some things and it has helpped.I will sit back and chill and see if we can get some constructive things out of this and if not I would say remember we have folks who need us here watching to get what we have and if our lives our as confussing and disfunctional as theres are why would they seek us out.They have that already.Yall be blessed

[Rocket2d4]

First and foremost I'm the only person that calls me an alki or an addict.
Alkis gose to AA....Drunks gose to a bar.lmao

An addict with no chioce.??? That's like a death sentence

Pretaining to NO CHIOCE to stop using?

That's simple...to continue using of course

To not be accountiable or responsible for the consequences/wackage of using of course.

To remain in the depth of a living hell.
To remain a slave or a puppet.


ALL 12 steps program is about FREEDOM. They're just program of suggestions.
You don't have to do anything in NA/AA/GA/SA...etc.
You are free to come and go as you chose.
I have a chioce today....I chose not to use today.
A god of my understanding...that's my chioce too. Whatever works for me is right for me.

Don't worry about having to do things on your own in recovery.
My sponsor nevered worked my steps for me..lmao
My sponsor or anyone else in recovery never cleaned up my messs for me.
My sponsor never went and dragged my ass out of a bar after I relapsed
My sponsor never removed my shortcomings or charactor defects from me...
As a matter of fact he let me sit in my one **** untiul I've had enough.lol
My sponsor never prayed for me nor communicated with my HP for me...

My sponsor never dragged my butt to a meeting...He figure if I can make it
to a bar on my own, I can make it to AA which is across the street from
the bar..

The differnce between my sponsor and my alki father is...my sponsor dosn't redicule
me nor dose he enable me...It's the way he communicates with me.
He's very kind and gental with me and supportive of me.
He offers me solutions or makes sugestions. He understands me.
He listen to me...he actaully really listens to me.
He loves me very, very much. I don't have to do anything to earn his love.
He allows me to make my own chioces.
He allows me to make mistakes and learn from them.

My sponsor will never beat or forced feed recovery into me.
There are certain things in my life that had to changed.
YOU HAVE TO STOP BEATING ME OR BEAT ANYTHING INTO ME.
Drugs and alcohol ABUSE...

Recovery has a lot more than not using. Abstant is very, very important of course.
Unfortantly an alcoholic/addict have a lot of living problems, don't know how cope or live life on life's terms.
The 12 steps are just one of many living programs.
The principle behind the 12 step living program is that one would learn how live a happy and healthy life style
that one would not need to use drugs, alcohol or any mood changing or mind altering substance to live.
In other words....STAY STOPPED after abstance or the withdraw stage.

Stopping using will not eliminate life's challgenges...Hopefully by living a healther life style one would minimize chaos.
Sometimes drugs and alcohol abuse mask other illness such as ocd, ptsd, depressions, thyriod levels, abused issues, abandenment issues
or other physical illness.

It's very common for people to find out they have other illness after they get clean and sober.
Drinking and using only masked and compounded a person's problem...
It's can be very, very overwhemling for a person to address these problems..

It's just as simple as strength in numbers. A one man army is not recommended.
Nothing is impossible...but 1 is a lonely number..lol

As in any bussiness...A bussiness can not stand or operate alone.
A bussiness have networks of support from verious avenues in order for it to function.