powerless or empowered?

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<b>Clean42day</b> - Tue 17 Jan, 2006 6:17 pm<br />
<b>Post subject: </b>powerless or empowered<hr width=95% class="sep"/>
<span style="color:blue">powerless or empowered?
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just curious where the concept of being powerless over people, places, and things came from?

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is this a treatment concept?
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I have not found it in the BB anywhere. It does say we seise fighting everything and anyone.
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I am certainly not powerless over the places i go...
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I am certainly not powerless over the things I allow or don't allow in my life.
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I am not powerless over people either....i have influence, affect and effect on the people in my daily life just by the example the program has taught me to live.
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the BB teaches me that the only thing I am powerless over is alcohol.
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Once I admitted that and became convinced of it....I became empowered in every other area of my life.
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The power of choice is a beautiful thing....are we creating a fellowship of victims by saying we are powerless over everything?
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pow·er·less adj.

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Lacking strength or power; helpless and totally ineffectual.
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the fellowship and program of recovery has the power to change a life just long enough to find a power greater than ourselves....once we find that power...we become empowered...not powerless.
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we had to find a power by wich we could live....
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not use powerlessness as an excuse to not be responsible and accountable for what we do or don't do, what we think or don't think.
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I have seen time and again people choose powerlessness by defaut...because it is convenient.
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just wondering where this concept really came from...and what value it really has concerning our everyday lives?
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does the concept of powerlessness really attract people to this program and fellowship? or scare them away from the rooms?
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thanks in advance for your replies
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Gail</span> <hr />
<b>peajaye</b> - Tue 17 Jan, 2006 10:05 pm<br />
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I love treatment centers and I am the product of a very good one. The powerless mantra seems to have been generated there because the BB says that indeed we do have the power to affect those around us. The passage that comes to mind is the one where it talks about us roaring through people's lives like a tornado. I've seen pictures of the devastation a tornado leaves in it's wake. Not very powerless. There are others as well that I don't know, but there is a website called aaprimarypurpose.org that has a link at the bottom for something called that ain't in the big book. This powerless statement is there.

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I respect the message in we are powerless over people, places and things. To me it just means that I cannot think for you or make your decisions. It is just saying to accept people places and things as they are.
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My 2 cents <hr />
<b>Clean42day</b> - Wed 18 Jan, 2006 2:30 am<br />
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<span style="color:blue">Thanks peajay....I guess it goes along with the serenity prayer....accept the things I cannot change...like the weather, a traffic jam, or another persons behavior or thier alcoholism/addiction. but there is also the part that says....change the things I can, witch most of the time is me and my approach to life....and the wisdom to know the difference. that wisdom is the key I think to deciding exactly what I am powerless over...
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I think when i carry a good message....I am influencing people in some way to consider another way of life....although I am powerless over whether they &quot;hear&quot; that message or take action on it.
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I mean if we are altogether powerless over the disease....why do we go on 12 step calls, speak on panels, and bother to carry a message at all?
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I wonder what would have happened is Bill Wilson was taught this people, places and things message?....would AA have ever come into existance? or would he have just resigned him self to accept that they was indeed no way to save other alcoholics.

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just a confusing concept I think....and one that could certainly be better explained without a cliche.
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when people are new the program is confusing enough without telling them that they must accept powerlessness on all levels.
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if I didn't find some new found power by wich i could live, that not only brought some productivity and peace in my life.....I would never have stayed in this thing called recovery. and I think many never hang around long enough to find that power. Because they never learn or hear the clearn and undiluted message of AA.
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thanks for your reply though you did make sense</span> <hr />

<b>Cassie</b> - Wed 18 Jan, 2006 7:25 am<br />
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Gail
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The underlying message to me was that &quot;a power greater than me&quot; (not alcohol) is the only answer. That power controls all, for me. The serenity prayer gives me direction in seeking to know the answers to what I can change and the steps give me the instructions on the actions I must take to follow through. When I am drinking, I am totally helpless, esp. over people, places and things. Recovery is not possible.
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Just my 2 cents. <img src="images/smiles/45.gif" alt="hug" border="0" /> <hr />
<b>fibiray</b> - Wed 18 Jan, 2006 8:42 am<br />
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I can only speak for myself but as an angry alcoholic I have so many times in drinking and sobriety had tried to manipulate things to how I think they should be rather than accepting them as they are. Whether that be people, things, situations and places. I think what they mean by places is such things for example when dealing with say a decision made by a governemnt department, my inability to accept these outcomes and to try and have things changed to my liking, is where that prinicple would certainly play a part. for me it is about thy will not mine be done and as the serenity prayer puts it accept the things I cannot change.
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thats my 2 bobs worth <hr />

<b>free2bunme</b> - Wed 18 Jan, 2006 11:44 am<br />
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i know this is a little off topic, but i read the &quot;thats not in the BB&quot; at the aaprimarypurpose.org website...i find a lot of things that are not in the big book to be helpful personally, and i would also add &quot;we recognize that we know only a little....that more will constantly be disclosed to us, and to you.&quot; (paraphrase, i cant get the online search engine to open up for the exact quote). <hr />

<b>free2bunme</b> - Wed 18 Jan, 2006 11:46 am<br />
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<div align="center"><div class="codetitle">Quote:</div><div class="quotediv">I think when i carry a good message....I am influencing people in some way to consider another way of life....although I am powerless over whether they &quot;hear&quot; that message or take action on it. </div></div>
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this makes a lot of sense to me. <hr />
<b>Doraine</b> - Thu 19 Jan, 2006 2:30 pm<br />
<b>Post subject: </b>Re: powerless or empowered<hr width=95% class="sep"/>
[quote=&quot;Clean42day&quot;][color=blue]powerless or empowered?
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I have not found it in the BB anywhere. It does say we seise fighting everything and anyone.
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the BB teaches me that the only thing I am powerless over is alcohol.
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I too have been confused over the concept of powerlessness. I thought it applied to everything and everyone outside myself and God, my higher power. But I agree with you the BB states,&quot; We admitted we were powerless over alcohol-that our lives had become unmanageable.&quot;p59 It says we are powerless over alcohol and only reliance on a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.&quot;Neither could we reduce our self-centeredness much by wishing or trying on our own power. We had to have God's help.&quot;p62 <hr />

<b>Clean42day</b> - Sat 21 Jan, 2006 1:16 am<br />
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Thank you everyone for participating in this discussion.....it helps to get reality checks from eachother. I happen to go on a search for the serenity prayer and found a really cool explanation of not only the different origins but also different interpretations and how it came to be part of our fellowship.........
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good reading.......
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check it out some of the &quot;versions&quot; make much more sense....than the people, places, and things cliche.
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<a href="http://" target="_blank" class="postlink"> open-mind.org</a>
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just in case I did the above link wrong....here it is again, copy and paste it <a href="http://open-mind.org/Serenity.htm" target="_blank">http://open-mind.org/Serenity.htm</a>

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love and light to everyone
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Gail <img src="images/smiles/43.gif" alt="bunnydance" border="0" /> <hr />
<b>bluidkiti</b> - Sat 21 Jan, 2006 5:25 am<br />
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This is one of my favorite readings from the Daily Reflections book about Powerless:
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Daily Reflections
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POWERLESS
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We admitted we were powerless over alcohol-that our lives had become
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unmanageable.
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TWELVE STEPS AND TWELVE TRADITIONS, p. 21
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It is no coincidence that the very first Step mentions powerlessness: An
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admission of personal powerlessness over alcohol is a cornerstone of
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the foundation of recovery. I've learned that I do not have the power
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and control I once thought I had. I am powerless over what people
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think about me. I am powerless over having just missed the bus. I am
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powerless over how other people work (or don't work) the Steps. But
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I've also learned I am not powerless over some things. I am not

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powerless over my attitudes. I am not powerless over negativity. I am
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not powerless over assuming responsibility for my own recovery. I
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have the power to exert a positive influence on myself, my loved ones,
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and the world in which I live. <hr />
<b>Clean42day</b> - Sat 21 Jan, 2006 8:13 pm<br />
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thanks ((((T)))) <img src="images/smiles/45.gif" alt="hug" border="0" /> <hr />
<b>flickchic</b> - Thu 26 Jan, 2006 9:57 pm<br />
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powerless v empowered, I used the serenity prayer to get me through drug rehab, I tired to use it through my c/hood issues, I lost my focus on turning my will over to God on that last part of my journey... for me powerless over alchohol is a deffinite, powerless over other people, partially, I am powerless to make them think or behave the way I wanted to, in trying to control my immediate environment, however I am not neccessarily powerless in having an input in the way they &quot;may&quot; think or behave, which would be by example, which I hope to be only good example from here on in.

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some lessons of example are so easy, I learnt what it really meant to &quot;lead by example&quot; at work, it didn't mean getting annoyed at people for not doing what &quot;I&quot; wanted them to do, it didn't mean leaving reminders to them to &quot;clean up at the end of the day&quot;, I did all of that, they made a slight effort, however they also complained to the supervisors and became distant to me. I gave up (I thought) and just did it myself. However the more I did and the more organised our workplace became I realised they started to do the same, &quot;whallah&quot;, I then thanked them for their efforts, no matter how small and I congratulated them as our workload got easier and our output larger!, the more I did the better it became.....and yes, i felt wonderful that my example had been followed, a lesson I so wished I had followed through further in my personal life. Yes, now I can make myself more aware and &quot;use it appropriately&quot;. I agree there are so many things we have to accept we are powerless over, &quot;waiting on others&quot; is something I do acept &quot;MOST OF thE TIME&quot;, i.e. at the doctor's surgery, I always take a book with me now, I learnt a long time ago, i couldn't change that I have to wait sometimes.

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The BIG one right here and now is admitting I'm powerless to change me unless I give my will to God. I've begun to practice this and yes I know my sobriety is very new, I have tried to change me a lot over the past 4 -5 years and own that I have grown a lot, however I've had some pretty big relapses also. One thing I do and will own is that I've had a very positive influence over my children in the past few years, we've all come through a lot of abuse (theirs as a result of what happened to me), we all have a very close and loving r/ship and their attitudes to others are wonderful. Particularly in the past 9 months since I've been going away to work, our time is &quot;quality&quot; and we do enjoy it.
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thank's for letting me share. <hr />