I'm the other half?

[Essex]

I was just thinking, Yeah I know, dangerous thing for an addict to do ...but I read here or someplace else, how it takes 2 people to make up a dysfunctional relationship.

Well, what I'm confused about is how does that work? I mean, say your with someone thats attention seeking or acting plain suupid, and trying to control by their "victim act", how do you become the other half of this dysfunctional relationship? Is because you remain with them? is it that you "should" walk away from them? How does it work? Do you ignore somebody? Isn't that pretty rude? I dont get it.

I mean isn't that making a judgement about somebody? How do you remain in someones space and not become party to their dysfunction?

I hope I've explained myself here, its hard getting it from my thoughts to my fingers.

[celticgrey]

Yes, as far as I see it, it does take two to tango on the relationship thing, although if you think about it, we can have a dysfunctional relationship with ourselves too.
I just know that if I don't want to be a part of that dysfunctional dance, I don't have to play unless I choose to. Mainly I have to be honest about what MY motives are and act accordingly. I don't think a person can remain in someones space and not become involved with the dysfunction.

[Booky]

Originally Posted by Essex

I was just thinking, Yeah I know, dangerous thing for an addict to do ...but I read here or someplace else, how it takes 2 people to make up a dysfunctional relationship.

Well, what I'm confused about is how does that work? I mean, say your with someone thats attention seeking or acting plain suupid, and trying to control by their "victim act", how do you become the other half of this dysfunctional relationship? Is because you remain with them? is it that you "should" walk away from them? How does it work? Do you ignore somebody? Isn't that pretty rude? I dont get it.

I mean isn't that making a judgement about somebody? How do you remain in someones space and not become party to their dysfunction?

I hope I've explained myself here, its hard getting it from my thoughts to my fingers.

I see this as a very common and normal problem because many people I meet and know are either addicts of some kind or dysfunctional in other ways.

Other people see some of my ways as unacceptable in their perspective so I say I am one of the bunch too.

The answer in my opinion is to never "enable" as like I must not be an "enabler" to the other person's dysfunction(s) and that way we can still have a healthy relationship with anyone of any kind.

Of course we do walk away from some one that is dangerous or hostile.

For me, I have friends that smoke and I tell them some times that it is a nasty habit, but I try not to enable it. Like I do not let smoking inside of my house period. And I do not often give people money to buy the cigarettes. I tell them that I do not want to enable them in doing such stuff.

I have another friend that says rather offensive stuff some times and I usually jump in and say - "He means this or that" to cover over the offense when I can. I do not see that as enabling, and other people seem to appreciate it when I change the subject or cover up a foolish statement.

What I use as an affirmation is the Seinfield Show link HERE because those four people were some weird folks, and they were friends because they accepted and dealt with the weird ways and strange stuff from each other and so my own friends and associates are what I compare to the Seinfeld Show.

Or the "Roseanne Show" because our society is made up of some peculiar people.

It works for me.

[Essex]

Yes I can see that not enabling someone without having to walk away completely, of course unless physcial or verbal abuse is threatened. I think for me, I want to be able to hold my own and yet still respect the "other" person. I've seen some people who consider themselves "spritual giants" ignoring people and snubbing people and claiming that they do this because they do not enable. Perhaps thats ok, but for myself I wish to allow the other person to find their own time and pace in their recovery, and for me to remain me, but also be able to allow others to be who they are, and be where they are in their journey..

[Roadrunner77]

Excellent question you have brought to light, Essex. Thank you.

[clean42day]

I mean, say your with someone thats attention seeking or acting plain suupid, and trying to control by their "victim act", how do you become the other half of this dysfunctional relationship? Is because you remain with them? is it that you "should" walk away from them? How does it work? Do you ignore somebody? Isn't that pretty rude? I dont get it.

I mean isn't that making a judgement about somebody? How do you remain in someones space and not become party to their dysfunction?

The answer to that is pretty simple - "healthy perosnl boundaries" with consequences and they will end up removing themselves by thier own actions.

on the other hand:

I wish to allow the other person to find their own time and pace in their recovery, and for me to remain me, but also be able to allow others to be who they are, and be where they are in their journey

I would have to say that if you can do that - without extreme emotional unmanageabilty and keep your own personal boundaries without harming yourself or others - then you have nothing to worry about.

But what if they are so enmeshed in your life - that they are causing you and your family personal - emotional - financial - spiritual - and physical harm ?- what then? What if - they have repeated these patterns for soooo long you can no longer recognize "normal" and not normal? What if they continually make thier problems - your problems?

some people have put up with soooo much for sooo long they can't even tell - they have been harmed? They have lost thier own sense of safety, self care, and identity!

Everyone to some degree is challenged by "how much to help" - "how much to put up with" "how much to enable" other people when they are in the grip of personal problems/ disease/ or dysfunction - there is a balance between other's needs versus self care.
Keeping that balance is the deciding factor. How chronic is the unmanageabilty? and how long has it been happening?

Would you tell someone who is loosing thier mind and putting thier children in harms way - to practive more patience, tolerance, and unconditonal love? would you tell then to just try harder?

When I have said to some members here - that they might want to look at how they might be the other half of an unhealthy relationship - it is because the problems they describe have been:

1. long term
2. damaging to self and the family
3 a chonic pattern of dysfunction
4. enabling to the person they are trying to help
5. nothing they have tried has worked.
6 nothing changes if nothing changes.
7. there is obsession to "help" involved
8. and compulsive patterned behavior - that is habitual

chronic unmanageabiltiy tells me - It takes two people to keep the cycle going for that long.

it is impossible to change other people - and the only way to "help" the relationship is to change yourself first.

A lack of healthy personal boundaries is usually the core cuase and as someone else here said - that stems from a dysfunctional relationship with "self" first.

in the name of being a good unconditional loving life partner - I have seen people destroy thier lives and put thier children in harms way.

People with healthy boundaries - don't put up with that kind of crap for long - they recognize it - set a boundary with consequences, give a couple of chances and then when all else fails they "distance" themselves and practice healthy detachment.

How do you know if your the "other half"................. When your powerless to stop it and step out of the sick cycle yourself, cpntinue to enable it through you own lack of boundaries, and then continue to expect a different result.

The only way to restore a relationship back to health - is when each indivicual partner takes full individual responsibility for "thier own" recovery and stops trying to change the other person and stops trying to work the other persons program - with empty threats of consequeces, barganing, and ultimatums that are not backed up.

I can certainly help people - and I can even stand by and not interfere while they make some really unhealthy choices for themselves - but I don't get "lost" in thier problems - I don't take responsiblity where it is not mine to take - and I don't feel unearned guilt when I can't solve thier problems for them anymore....and I don't let them live in my home while they try to destroy thier lives and everything around them.

co-dependency is a disease - just like any other - and it detroys lives - without chemicals.

There is a huge difference between being in someones "space" and being so enmeshed into thier lives so thoroughly that you can no longer tell you they end and where you begin - that is co-dependency!



believe me it was pretty surprising to me also when I entered therapy and my therapist told me - "he" was not my only problem - that if I wanted the relationship to survive - that I had to work on myself too. imagine my suprise when I did my very first co-dependent 4th step!

Healthy detathment is not selfish - nor is it self=centered.....it is called self-care - but so many of us have been brought up to be so unconditional with people and to avoid conflict -that the dysfunctional person never sees the need to change - becaus there are never any consequences.

Healthy detachment allows those concequences to take place naturally without any interferance from the co-dependent person - it looks like "tough love" but you know what the alternatives are ? - to love someone so much - that you love them to death! to the detriment of you and your family too.

given those alternatives - I would rather practice healthy boundaries.

I can't save someone from themselves - but what I can do is not allow them to detroy my life in the process.

I hope I have answered your question............

light and love

Gail

p.s. you can get some good infomation here:

http://www.joy2meu.com/Personal_Boundaries.htm

[Essex]

C4T, I think I already said there was times when walking away was the right action, but I wasn't meaning to go to extremes here, because we addicts are good at that? I think I made my post pretty clear? I understand what your saying about extremes, and yes that would be an extreme case if enmeshment was that critical, I'm talking about lesser "crimes", and I think I have my answer already, I just needed to work out what I feel is right and what I feel is wrong.

[clean42day]

I just needed to work out what I feel is right and what I feel is wrong.

That is really the core of any healthy boundary - staying true to your own inner wisdom first - and not allowing that 'inner truth" to become skewed by the other persons issues.

To me lesser "crimes" (as you put it) - are the challenges of just about any relationship - not reacting and responding instead from a place of genuine authenticity are great opportunities for individual growth.

Boundaries are actually the most loving thing you can do for your partner because they involve direct, open, assertive communication......your partner doesn't have to "guess" at what your feeling, where you stand, what you will stand for, and what is not acceptable.....and to what length you are willing to go to keep the relationship healthy and honorable.

in that sense boundaries create a sense of safety and a foundation of emotional/spiritual trust (in eachother) when both people are working individually towards health and wholeness - it lifts the relationship to a whole new level.

But when we take responsibility for just "our half" - that is the kind of growth that doesn't "depend" on the other persons......just as you said earlier - they can then feel free to grow at their own pace on the journey - because they no longer feel pressure by the other person to change.......the choice is placed back where it belongs - back to thier own inner wisdom.

down at the bottom of that link I posted is some really good information - that helped me tremendously clairify my own "inner wisdom"

I wish you well on your own journey

light and love

Gail