Boundaries

[clean42day]

Boundaries

At what point do we say to ourselves, “this is no longer acceptable in my life�. It does not honor me, it does not honor you, and I will not stand for it any longer.


I know for me I did not grow up with boundaries. I had none period. I was wide open. My family didn’t either. No one role modeled any healthy behavior at all so everything was perfectly acceptable. Emotional, physical, mental, intellectual, and spiritual abuse were part of my normal daily life. All the other members in my family put up with it, dished it out and there was nothing to compare it too. We all did it. No one ever told me I had a “right� as a person and a human being to dignity and respect. I did not learn it so I did not live it. No one in my family EVER stood up and said.� Hey this does not feel right, and this is no longer acceptable. No one dared. Everyone brandished their own personal weapons. Mine were passive/aggressive comments, anger, blame, mental, and emotional abuse. My Dad’s favorite was mental abuse, and emotional neglect - stonewalling. And his coping skill was being emotionally unavailable to himself and us. We were all crazy in his eyes, we were all mental retards as far as he was concerned and told us constantly that what we were thinking, feeling, and seeing was not real. We learned to deny our own perceptions and truth. My coping skills to keep myself safe were denial, anger, isolation, and manipulation. I had learned some time ago what abuse was but never did anything about it. I also learned that I abused myself because that is all I ever knew. I only recently learned what a boundary is, what it means, how it works and what it is used for. When I did start to learn …Melody Beattie, John Bradshaw, Penelope Love, and Iyanla Vanzant became my parents.

Denial is the glue that holds dysfunctional families together. As soon as one member “wake’s up� it threatens the whole family system. Usually that person will be ostrasized, isolated, attacked or beaten down, or made into a scapegoat to make them conform to the way it’s always been. They only have two choices either “go back to sleep = denial and cope the best they can, or separate themselves mentally, emotionally, disassociate becoming unavailable to themselves and others. I never knew there was a third functional choice, and there is a solution = boundaries.

Internal boundaries say, “ok this is no longer acceptable behavior to me, this is where I draw the line in the sand, --------- = beyond here I will not go, and beyond here------ I will not allow you to come. They are our only safety net. The real hard part is following though. What consequences are you willing to follow through with if your boundaries are crossed repeatedly. The follow through is the most important part of a boundary. We teach people how to treat us through our silence or inaction. How many times have I threatened to “do something� and never followed through?. When you don’t back a boundary up with a consequence and follow through, it looses it’s power , and function, and people will act like its not there because there is never a consequence -there is nothing to loose.

I also had to stop abusing myself. I had to say I will no longer treat myself this way. I will treat myself with dignity and respect. Everyone has the right to be treated with dignity and respect. It is my responsibility to treat others in the same manner. When you say, this is no longer acceptable to me, and then turn around and treat others in your life “abusively�, you are caught in the never ending dance of dysfunction. Boundaries work….but they work both ways.

Because I have learned boundaries and now practice them they have given me a very valuable tool to keep myself safe and others safe from me. However because I was sooooo excited that I have something new to use. My boundaries became very rigid. Any little thing that I felt dishonored me was now perceived as abuse. I would not stand for it . I spoke up and went to the other extreme almost becoming aggressive. Many people say Gail your too serious, lighten up. I am now learning to find balance in using boundaries and have gained some flexibility. I now have the ability to keep myself safe but at the same time, let people into my life, and be who they are without feeling threatened by every little thing they do or don’t do.

P.S. if anyone can add to this discussion I would love to learn from you and how boundaries work in your life?

[fibiray]

Like it has been said boundaries are not something that I have in the past actively put up. I have been open to all sorts of neglect and abuses as well as manipulations. I have this current situation where I feel that there has been a degree of dishonesty with this person and that she is trying to use and maniulate me. I have tried to practice patience and put prinicples before personalities. but now i am finding that this is not working and the only alternative if for me to remove myself from the situation.
The same thing happened with my family. I kept on putting up with their physical, mental and emotional abuse until one day after I got sober, I simply put my foot down and said "do that to me again and I will have you charged with asault." It was an empowering moment in my recovery. I have a tendency to keep going back to what is not good for me and this stems from my childhood. I guess the big thing that I struggle with is overcoming guilt for having asserted myself enough to set up boundaries. thats me

[flickchic]

How many times have I threatened to “do something� and never followed through?. When you don’t back a boundary up with a consequence and follow through, it looses it’s power , and function, and people will act like its not there because there is never a consequence -there is nothing to loose.

<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

I also grew up without boundaries, mostly, those that were in place were so strict, regimental and there was no tolerance when they were broken.

Big issue for me; knowing when things were not right, unacceptable and not being allowed to voice myself on those things....when I did I was given negative responses for attempting to express myself. Late in life I went along accepting what was handed out, I had two r/ships where I was told that I didn't know what I was saying or doing half the time and much crazy play with my mind.

As a young parent I was terrible with boundaries with my eldest two children and their dad and I had major issues over that as he has very rigid beliefs with reprimanding children. I would threaten and not follow through. It has still been an issue for me later in parenting also, something my current partner has expressed (through his own mirror) to me also. I am (finally) learning to follow through with discipline and "time out" for the younger children and am able to voice myself to the older children when I feel their behaviour is inappropriate.

As a teenager I had no personal boundries, no self respect, was very promiscuous and to me that is a part of not having boundries for self.

In my personal r/ships I have crossed many boundries and allowed myself to have none. I accepted the abuse as "my lot"....particularly in my last r/ship, I was always threatening to do something about the abuse, and when I did initially have him charged for the assaults I would end up in the courtroom trying to "get him off"!!!!! So yep message given there, it's ok, and I always allowed us to remain together. Eventually, and yes it took a lot of work with counselling I learnt to "stand up for myself (to a degree)and my basic human rights" I was not stable enough to continue with my boudries of what is a aceptable behaviour from others for very long however as I did end up entering into another r/ship that soon took a spiral downhill and I again allowed myself to be abused. I did speak out this time along the way, however allowed the r/ship to continue through my own needs as a result of being co-dependant. The cycle was two-fold also as he (as did the others) has threatened over and over to leave, however never did until Jan. this year. Since beginning to address my alcohol issues however I am working on and learning to put in place and maintain healthy boundries. I was recently able to express that I will not accept and take responsibility for his part in argumentive behaviour. I follow through with things with the children, including the good things...I have found that being true to my word when offering to do things, be places, etc etc with them helps to enforce that I am true to my word. I really have had to enforce my boundries with Blake a lot of late, I would threaten him with the time and chair and time in his room, which I did follow through with however I threatened a few times before acting, now he gets told twice....cease the behaviour or....time on the chair....if it continues, same again, two warnings.....then it's the bedroom. Which thankfully I noticed y.day worked!!! Generally it's because he yells at me when things don't go his way, which I kept trying to accept as pure frustration due to lack of clear communication, however I give him the opportunity to "use his words" first and let me know what the problem is, he doesn't always choose to participate and I have learnt that generally after timeout he will return and "use his words" appropriately. Our biggy is him wanting desert before eating a reasonable amount of dinner first...I am accepting in that appetites change however if he refuses to eat a meal but wants desert I refuse to comply. So he yells...generally after time out he will return have some dinner and then is fine!!!!....had a tough one y.day actually we were out, festivities happening in town, now I understood that he is not completely well and he did do pretty good for the most of it, however he stuck his heels in a one stage and wanted me to carry him, we have a local lolly shop that has lot's of yummies in it and anyways I had told the kids they could go and get something, he is fully aware of what was happening. He refused to walk, he yelled and yelled and as we were not at home I had no timeout chair!!!....sometimes a bit of an issue. So I just stood with him and told the others to go and shop. Well they returned, he brightened up wanted lollies....I told him no, if he wanted lollies he had to walk to the shop. We went to leave and he still wanted up, and lollies, so I reinforced wht I had said, you want lollies you walk, meanwhile the others were having a lovely time with their goodies!!!Well he then decided that he was able to walk and off we went....He is very stubborn hey, but i have learnt the consequences of NOT FOLLOWING THROUGH!!!! so yes, the message got through and we had a win. Yes he did get his lollies!. I did consider not allowing him to as in the past I have been rigid and stuck to No you didn't do as you were asked/told in the first place so that's that....it occurred to me that if you are told you can/will have whatever if you do the asked things then you ought have the better behaviour rewarded regardless of the initial attitude. That then reinforces what is acceptable behaviour and what is not, makes it quite clear I feel. Otherwise if they learn that it's not going to happen anyway then why bother trying to comply??

My boundaries became very rigid. Any little thing that I felt dishonored me was now perceived as abuse. I would not stand for it . I spoke up and went to the other extreme almost becoming aggressive.

I found this particularly with society in general when i began to have personal boundries; I would become somewhat hostile in dealing with people when I found something unncaceptable, i.e purchases, service in shops etc also people being in my space....having someone behind me in a que trying to hurry me up, or leaving a car park....I have learnt to express myself clearly, politely and to the point; i.e one day I stood in que at the post office, it was not long b4 Christmas, granted it was a busy time and many people in the que, however every time I moved forward the lady behind me got coser and closer....eventually I turned around and asked her to please not try and stand on top of me. We moved forwards again and she continued to get in my personal space. I turned around once again and reuested that she "please not be in my personal space as I found it uncomfortable", well I recieved a rude comment in return, however she did leave space with the next movement and I felt empowered for having addressed the issue appropriately. I had another issue the other day, had waited for my turkey n cranberry roll to be made after the kids had been served their Maccas and when it arrived it was not turkey but thai chicken. I got up to return it and Katherine my eldest said "yeah go mum", they know the old me well!!!,,, I just said "nah I'll just ask them to fix it up for me", which I did, I was apologised to and told that it would be sorted and I said no probs, just would prefer to have the roll type i had requested and yeah so much easier and I returned with peace whereas in the past i have never felt good afterwards, just continued internal fumming and bad mouthing to anyone who wanted to listen! I had another incident recently at a xray place, I use two different names, my medical records are still in my married name and most other things I now use my maiden name again.....As I am registered at work, with worker's comp board and insurance company with my maiden name they were not too impressed with the added paper work invoved at this place as they had to take my personal details in case the insurance company didn't accept payment (even though I have had all my xrays, mri's ct's etc at this place since my accident) I haven't had this prob. before anyhows this lady decided to get rather loud about it after I mentioned that I had been coming in for ages without a problem. I shared with her that I preferred she didn't make my details public would she please lower her voice. Well didn't that peeve her off!!! with a air of "who do you think you are?" she continued to be loud, so I expressed that unless she could lower her voice I wished not to communicate with her as it was bothering me that all and sundry could hear what we were discussing and i have a right to privacy. She tired again, I said when she was ready I would continue, I walked away and sat down. I waited and eventually she called me up and yes, we continued in a more appropriate manner that "I" felt was acceptable. So yes, sometimes the following through takes a bit more of an effort, however she was not about to cease what felt like public humiliation by way of disrespecting my right to privacy over personal details....I felt I had a right to take a stand (well..sit in this instance ) and so I did. I felt uncomfortable that i had, because yes the whole thing was observed by quite a few others, however I chose to hold my ground, sat and read a mag.

I also had to stop abusing myself. I had to say I will no longer treat myself this way. I will treat myself with dignity and respect. Everyone has the right to be treated with dignity and respect. It is my responsibility to treat others in the same manner.

Yes, this is an area I have had to work very hard on; bottom line I have a basic human right to be myself,I will respect my rights to have myself heard and be treated appropriately by myself and others and allow others the same respect from me.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[clean42day]

great examples Fi thanks for sharing them...I can relate. latley I have had to set some boundaries with my sponsee concerning her step work. I had some fear surrounding this issue. I don't want to give ultimatums...those don't work, and never worked with me. Give me an ultimatum in the past and watch what I would do - oh BOY!!!!! exactly the wrong thing.

I don't want to scare her off either. so I talked with her, expressing some concerns. gave her my experience about how many people,including myself have relapsed in the middle of step 4 and 5 stuff. becuase the resistance and procrastination of dragging it on and on out into the pain can be dangerous. She did do a step 4, but was avoiding going deeper and not looking at her part. when we read through and talked about it in step 5....I gave her just a little bit more work to do on it. she has drug this little bit out for 3 months now. and tells me every week she is almost ready, almost ready....... almost done, not quite yet....blah blah blah....

I suspect it is avoidance...and I have been there and know how scary it can be to face myself. but at the same time...if I say nothing, this will continue on with 6,7,8,9.....steps. it is not that I want her to rush or that "time" is a real factor. I would rather she spend "time being" thorough than anything. but dicipline is part of recovery too. and by not setting a boundary I am showing her how I will allow myself to be treated also. What kind of example does that set for her? I don't know how to transfer my concern for her, into her own concern for herself. The steps are the most important work she will ever do in life and they will save her from herself, her disease, from others....when I cannot be reached.

in the meantime she calls me talking about a very dysfunctional relationship she is involved in....I keep telling her work the steps and they will help you change your relationship with yourself....then your relationships with others will change too. I don't know what else to do? I cannot make her do anything. and I will not refuse to sponsor her or fire her.....That would just give her amunition to beat up on herself.

So I called her the other day....and told her, that I would appreciate it if she could complete her last assignment by the end of next week, that I also have my own work to do with my own sponsor and my fall semester starts soon. This gave her a timeframe to work within. But I did not back it up with a follow through statement- as in "if you don't have this work done by then, I will________. I don't want to give her a reason to fail. does that make sense?

anyway>>>>as you can see I still have confusion also. the difference is today my life is not as unmanageable over a lack of boundaries....but hers sure is. This learning process sure is tough and watching others learn through things and standing by and allowing them to make some bad decisions in order to learn how to make good ones is frankly....very painful to witness at times...but when the lightbulb goes off and they pull themselves up and out of it....it also a blesssing. Sponsee's sure can make a person grow.!

thanks for listening

Gail

[dalin]

thanks for this writing
i wish you luck
i have always had trouble in these areas

[blessed2be]

Wow...thanks for the "Boundaries" post. I have been putting up with the vicious cycle of my parents' alcohol/drug abuse and putting my husband and kids through it with me. My last visit with my parents was ruined as usual because of their addictions. I have not spoken to them since we left (just a week ago), which is a huge step for me. I grew up with no boundaries and realized I was hurting myself and my family by not setting them now. The consequences of not having a relationship with my parents scare me, but not as much as having my family walk on egg shells like I did all my life. I set the boundary and told myself I will no longer let these two people manipulate me and my family into having a relationship with them, only to be constantly hurt. We'll see what happens. All I know is that I have to protect my children. I never want them to know the pain I know. I never want them to be afraid like I was. Thanks so much for your post. It gives me strength.